this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2024
68 points (94.7% liked)

politics

19120 readers
2882 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

but the contention here is that we seem to disagree on branding and terminology.

Exactly. I'm in favor of labeling groups based on what they are/do and using clear terminology.

You seem fine to call them whatever they want.

Which is why I pointed China claims to be communist and NK claims to be a democracy....

So we shouldn't just let political group use any label they want.

Words have meaning.

They may be wolves in sheep’s clothing, but they certainly TARGET leftists, which is the point.

Alright, big payoff time, I'm crossing my fingers this works.

If they're trying to trick people by labeling themselves "far left" and people are falling for it...

Why are you the one out here labeling them "far left" and arguing with the people clarifying they're not?

It seem like the rational path her for you would be doing what I'm doing.

All you're doing right now is helping their grift and continuing the false narrative that they're the. "far left" option.

We really do seem to agree on a lot of stuff here, I just don't know why you're helping them

[–] JustAnotherRando@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

You're now being hostile which is quickly souring any chance of productive conversation. You're accusing me of saying things I've not said, you're blatantly ignoring anything that's inconvenient to your point of view, and You're making attacks/accusing me of "helping the enemy" because I disagree on how to deal with them. Not only are you not making any manner of argument on how you're NOT engaging in "No True Scotsman", you're becoming actively hostile at an ally because I only agree on 99% of the topic.
I've not once called them "far left" - I've called them the "farthest left (at least at a surface level) party with national exposure." That's not exactly a high bar. It also ignores the fact that there are genuine leftists that identify with the party. They operate WITHIN the leftist sphere, and they are grifters. You can't dismiss it out of hand and say that "well they are really leftists" - yeah, no shit, that's what grifters fucking do. Fucker Carlson doesn't believe in 1/10th of the shit he spouts off, but it doesn't make home not a far right grifter.
I'm not helping them, I'm trying to make sure that allies, both to my left and to my right (I wouldn't call myself "far left" but would call myself "leftist") keep some level of guard up against grifters that operate within our spaces.
My POV is: we are not immune to grifters in our spaces, you should maintain guard. Here's one example of a grifter within our space. (FTR, I could have also pointed to ML tankies that defend the actions of Russia and China in spite of the fact that neither are remotely Communist, socialist or leftist of any form). Your POV as it comes across SEEMS TO BE: Well, they're not REALLY far left (unclear if you only mean to exclude from "far" left or leftist in total), so no we don't have grifters on the left. If this is not your point of view, then far more time has been spent arguing about minutiae and leftist in-Fighting than explaining why you don't believe that grift is not a problem within this space.

And look, I really do not want to be hostile here, because I do Believe that we are largely allies (I don't know that we would agree on policies exactly as this is a narrow discussion, but we're so far from what either of us would likely want that it should prevent us from wanting to work together). I am however, not interested in engaging further if the discussion is just going to be hostile. I ain't got time for that shit.

Edit: Sorry, there is a point that you mentioned that I want to touch on: you mentioned that I am "just calling people what they want to be called" while you Believe in looking at their actions over their words... The thing is, we can only see that their actions are inconsistent with a leftist ideology because they have visibility and have been around long enough that we can now know that they are grifters. A decade+ ago, we did not have that information, so as far as most people could know, they were "leftist". I'm not including them to exist their actions, I'm using them as an example of our space but being immune to the grift. They may not be "true leftists", but they ARE "left-wing grifters." Because it's not about who they are, it's about who they target. There are farther-left grifters (likely including some who are state actors of foreign governments), but it's not as easy to identify who is and is not a grifter because we don't have as much info on them.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I hope your weekend turns around before it's over...

But nothing productive is going to happen here, and I dont expect it ever will between us.

[–] JustAnotherRando@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

Lol, my weekend is fine, though my shoulder muscles were acting up and giving me a headache which may have made me slightly grumpy. I did not mean to come across as though I'm in a bad mood. I do hope you have/had a good weekend, and I think we likely agree on much more than we disagree. Have a good evening!