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Ukraine rule
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2024
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A good way imperialists discovered to launder money from european and americans taxpayers. Fuck Zelensky ( don't mistake with Ukrainian people)
Those damn imperialists providing weapons to a sovereign country in order to protect itself from it's imperialist neighbor trying to annex it!
Multiple things can be true. Both of these claims are true.
It benefits NATO countries to curb the expansion of a rival power without losing a single soldier.
Assisting in a sovereign country in resisting annexation by a genocidal occupier is a good thing.
You don't always have to suffer to help someone else, some situations can be win-win.
If you forget all the death and destruction caused by this war, then yes. I'm sure it's very profitable.
It's not being caused by the ones providing weapons, but the attackers though?
Are you the kind of people that thells people not to help the bullied kid against the bully because it will just make them take more hits? Just surrender to the bully, easy.
Thing is, a total military defeat of Russia has seemed very unlikely for all the duration of the conflict. It's been ongoing for more than two years, and the only results so far are more Ukrainian territories occupied, and more death and destruction. Peace negotiations should be kept open at all times, and it should be up to Ukrainian people to decide the terms they agree to. Sadly, it has surfaced in an investigation from Foreign Affairs that some western powers like the UK or the US pushed Ukraine to stay in the war, for reasons that we can only speculate about. So, what's the best course of action now?
"Rival" power is a matter of choice though, isn't it? The EU could as easily have chosen to align with Russia as with they've done with the US. In the same way that both France and Germany are powers but they're not really rival. EU should have gone its own way after 1991, NATO stopped making sense after the communist block was dissolved, and the fact that it kept growing and moving further towards the east in violation of the agreements reached last century, kinda shows that it's not a defensive alliance as much as it is subservience to US's geopolitical interests.
This isn't to say the EU should be aligned to Russia or that the war in Ukraine isn't primarily Putin's fault, or that there shouldn't be a military alliance in Europe, I'm just saying the US shouldn't belong to it, let alone dictate its terms.
I did not interpret my original comments as genocidal rhetoric, but seeing as how they have been interpreted, I now realize that they contain an element analogous to that of "the conflict in Gaza is too complex". I am sorry for causing this pointless argument and will be more careful with the implications of concise opinions from now on.
I tend to be aggressive because I find a lot of people playing apologist for Russia, often utilizing doublespeak and changing the tack of their argument when confronted, only to return to it later when the examination is less thorough, not only on here but also in person.
I apologize that I was too quick to assume motives in this case.
So I missed y'all's argument, but I really appreciate how you both realized that you'd made thoughtless posts, apologized, and removed them.
It's a rare thing to see online.
I just wanted to say 'well done' for going over what you said, realizing how it could be interpreted adversely, and admitting it. Not enough people are willing to do that, so well done!
It's crazy that this isn't even the first comment I've seen this week arguing that the Ukraine war is somehow a conspiracy by the West to sell more weapons, as if Russia didn't just roll up and invade them, illegally and unprovoked
It's not a conspiracy, it's a colossal arms industry that will bankrupt the West and Russia the day wars around the world end.
Do you recognize being invaded by a foreign country is a legitimate problem a country might have to face? If you do, and you oppose private military industry, that means you support public military industry, right?
Ofc there are situations that require military defense expenses. Once said that, using the military expenses to cross all the red lines drawn in the aftermath of WW2 is not to prevent a foreign invasion, but to instigate the chapter 3.
Do you think Russia will patiently wait until every country bordering it is pointing missiles at it? Then you understand nothing about big-scale military conflicts.
By "crossing the red lines" do you mean ex-Eastern block countries joining NATO? Those countries joined out of their own free will BECAUSE they feared Russia might want to attack them. And, oh surprise, Russia did attack the one country not sucking up to them that didn't join NATO. Why should Russia's security be sacred above that of all its neighbours?
If by red lines you don't mean that, then they've clearly not been crossed. Russia and US or EU troops have not directly fought each other, and no country has used nuclear weapons so far.
"Patiently wait" is a funny way to spell "invade and systematically undermine."
No reason every country around them has missiles - right? No history of getting rolled, by them. Not like there's an alliance specifically dedicated to stopping them from gobbling up nearby territory whenever they feel like it.
Oh poor russia, lol.
Oh, honey... You won't find many useful idiots here. Try Reddit.
I wish that were true. Plenty of people on .ml and hexbear willing to suck up to Putin.
6 upvotes and they’re on a .de instance. Smdh
Okay Putin
Yup, fuck the Azov batallion now that we're at it. Damn neo nazis.