this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2024
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THE POLICE PROBLEM
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The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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• NAACP
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• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
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Tbf if they were outside the classroom, then we lack the data to say "it's proof more guns inside don't help."
I know it's nitpicking, but also had they done their actual jobs they're fucking paid to do, but not required to do thanks to Castle Rock V Gonzales and Warren V DC, then the "more guns" would likely have been what killed him instead of "his own gun."
I understand why the anti self defense crowd wants to use this as fodder for their agenda, but personally this speaks more of the failures of our entire policing system to me. Frankly to me it's a glaring example of why we need to be able to defend ourselves, the cheesedicks we pay to come help us won't.
Your framing of people who are concerned about gun violence as "the anti-self defense crowd" is very disingenuous. No one is anti-self defense.
I'm sure there are some extremes where people are anti self-defense, lol.
But I absolutely 100% agree. As someone who does support the 2nd amendment AND reasonable gun control, people who are concerned shouldn't be called "the anti-self defense crowd", because it's a legitimately valid concern, just as much as defending yourself and others.
Yeah exactly! I've been around a lot of guns in my life, have shot several different types, come from a hunting family, yadda yadda. Honestly people in general shouldn't be blanket trusted to be safe with weapons, because in my experience many of them just are not. I don't think having guns is a problem in itself, we just need to make sure people are safe. Many serious self-defense experts advocate for running or removing yourself from potentially dangerous situations before exercising violence, and I think we can carry that philosophy forward into our lawmaking.
Something I haven't seen before that I'd like to see tried out would be some sort of required firearms training, but make it mandatory that a local certifier, a police or sheriff's liaison or something, perform the training for free to citizens. I think if we had police doing it that might be a chance to foster some good will with the community, do some regular humanizing type stuff. No infringement of anyone's rights, and I also get what I want in more safe gun owners.
That's a good idea in theory, I just hope no problems come with it! Also yea, I've shot a few guns at my local range. I've stopped going because I got chronic pain, shooting a gun, having to have a proper posture, grip, dealing with loud noise (obv), I don't think it's for me, or everyone for that matter.
Giving every teacher a gun doesnt mean they'll be able to handle it, let alone the situation of fighting a school shooter.
The police on the other hand did sign up for combating shit like that.
It would seem that many of them are under the impression we can regulate away "most of" the crime and therefore we won't need to defend ourselves, and we can do this by passing laws like feature bans which only affect people who are afraid of going to prison (which is to say, not mass shooters.) They'd probably tell you they don't mind self defense, but their actions betray their words.
Yeah lets arm the children! And school teachers!
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BTW you can understand that "outside the classroom" with just minimal intelligence IMO.
Hell yeah that's what I said! Definitely didn't say "the cops should have used their guns inside the school to do their fucking job" or anything.
Can I help you learn to read or something? I'll help sponsor whatever today's equivalent to Hooked On Phonics is for you if you promise you'll study this time.
THE COPS SHOULD HAVE GONE IN AND DONE THEIR JOBS
Can ya read it now?
Alternatively, hire security, I guess.
Then who are you expecting to arm with more guns inside the school if not teachers and children? You end your point with being able to defend yourselves because the police won't, so the commenter replies as such - then you switch your main point to the police should have been trained to be inside to defend people - making your first point moot?
THE COPS SHOULD HAVE GONE IN AND DONE THEIR JOBS
Can ya read it now?
Alternatively, hire security, I guess. Because yes, clearly the cops aren't doing their jobs in cases like this.
Also MAY-FUCKIN'-BE that I'm suggesting we fix the systemic issues, namely that cops don't have to protect us. Seems that's controversial enough that you have to attack me with mischaracterizations of my argument, surprising to me.
I'm guessing you find these cop's actions entirely reasonable and justified, since you're defending them so hard, right? Or is that a mischaracterization of your argument?
Yeah? Where did you get the idea that I'm defending cops or that they are trained well? I'm trying to get you to clarify how a more gun stance or status quo stance helps in this situation. How'd you get from that to COPS GOOD? Also calm the hell down, nobody is attacking anyone. I don't care about the pro or anti gun movement and I'm only interested if there are even pros for gun use to be had here.
The main useful point you've mentioned there is hiring security... You mean like school police, that didn't help in Uvalde? If you don't want people to mischaracterize your points, could you be more specific?
If you need me to spell my stance out, obviously the cops are terribly trained and useless here. Also whoops I posted twice by accident, deleting the first one as it is a dupe.
If you can decide what I mean despite my corrections and protestations, I too can decide what you mean. I'm over here saying the cops failed to do their jobs and have systemic issues and you're fighting with me using misinformation. Sure as shit sounds like you're a back the blue MAGA idiot to me.
How are you liking Reddit so far?
I left before you did my dude. I've been here since before the exodus, what's my .ml acct in my bio at by now, 2yr? Get good.
It says 3 years on Jerboa.
Ayy, thanks lol.
Weird flex. Also, I was implying that the same people that would miss your point on Reddit and start banging on the gun issue are the same people doing it here. Once you starting waving your imaginary membership join date to a website in my face like a dick measuring contest I realized you are just another Redditor too.
Lol you imply I'm "a redditor," then when I say "I've been here and off reddit longer than you," which you made applicable by starting said dick measuring contest, you come up with this shit? Try harder I guess, lol.
Brother, are you fucking dense? Im in total agreement with your original sentiment and comment. I saw you were getting harped on for not having an absolute anti gun stance and jokingly implied that this place is just like Reddit by asking and asked how you were liking this new fresh take here on totally not Reddit and you started in on me about your join date. I couldn’t give two fucks about your Reddit or lemmy join date. You may have convinced me that some people are in fact too stupid to own a firearm.
Didn't read that way, and the whole "being a fucking asshole" shtick hasn't been helping your case. If it was truly a misunderstanding it's one you could have avoided by being more clear then "how are you liking reddit" or whatever useless question you asked me to "show support" or some such nonsense, and secondly when you identified a possible misunderstanding you could have avoided further conflict by not doubling down and being an asshole again but "for real" this time, simply because I replied in kind to what I clearly thought was you being an asshole in the first place.
You're not the mega genius you think you are, you caused this issue with your inarticulacy at best. There's frankly no need for us to speak further, and I will decline to do so after this last comment. Good day.
K “get good” or whatever…