this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2024
35 points (84.3% liked)
Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.
5243 readers
265 users here now
Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.
As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades:
How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world:
Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:
Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Yes. Stealing. From the taxpayers that maintain that forest. From the public who owns the property.
Stealing is exactly right. Because while everyone can breathe air, there isn't enough of that forest to go around if everyone lived like this.
Welcome everyone to the concept of the commons (and by extension the tragedy of the commons)
The tragedy of the commons is, literally, privatization.
No it's not.
The tragedy of the commons is when too many people use a public resource in a way that is unsustainable. For example, air is not privatized but air pollution impacts everyone who checks notes uses air.
That's not to say there aren't solutions to the Tragedy of the Commons problem and resources cannot be made publicly available, but systems need to be created to manage common resources.
Close, but not.
The "overuse" is an aspect of mismanagement of the commons, it's not simply about overuse, it's about the management. The understanding that "someone just used up all that nice stuff" is poor, even in accordance with the author of this theory.
The tragedy is that the its so mismanaged that it allows an asshole to ruin it for everyone. That's not some default, that's what happens when you have poor management. Plenty of commons have good management and it's a known field and theory. If you want to go by this view, you can read Ostrom who actually researched the issue of management:
https://aeon.co/essays/the-tragedy-of-the-commons-is-a-false-and-dangerous-myth
https://tn.boell.org/en/2023/04/19/5-elinor-ostrom-et-les-huit-principes-de-gestion-des-communs (look for YouTube lectures too).
In practice, however, what you describe as the asshole greedily and selfishly taking from the commons is literally the act of privatization. Which is why the usual capitalist "solution" to this problem - official privatization - is a failure.
Here's also a humorous podcast explaining what's wrong with it: https://player.fm/series/srsly-wrong/ep-235-the-imaginary-tragedy-of-the-hypothetical-commons in case you like to listen.
So lucky I decided to get that gills-surgery
The thing about the tragedy of the commons is that it’s basically bullshit. It’s been debunked as long as it’s been around. It’s privatization propaganda, nothing more.
People have been equitably maintaining commons for literally all of human history, and they are good at doing so within their communities. Social structures to maintain commons without official regulation have been in place for generations without major issues.
https://aeon.co/essays/the-tragedy-of-the-commons-is-a-false-and-dangerous-myth
Oh! Great reply! That's interesting.
And from the indigenous people who originally lived there - these people are very clearly not Aboriginal Australians.
I've heard Native American activists argue that white influencer style permaculture is inherently racist when performed on American soil, because it's modeled on a romanticized ideal of white settler lifeways and has nothing to do with how permaculture was actually practiced in North America before the genocides. I'm not sure how I feel about that argument. But having a family of white Australian permaculturists literally stealing from public land to maintain their settler lifestyle... it's a little too on the nose.