Asklemmy

Haven't you identified this casino as an element of the universe, and observed how it works? I can't predict exactly where the ball will fall, but i don't think roulette is supernatural. I can understand the non-deterministic process and chacterise the probability density. And test and observe over many trials to confirm the stochastic model is right.

Uncertainty, randomness, even entaglement and action at a distance can be observed right? with some degree of preision? When you start to pin them down with experiments and describe the probability distribution experimentally, repeatedly, testably then hey presto; I'd call that a "natural" obsrervable random or non-deterministic process.

Maybe it's natural with some more uncertainty than usual , but as you said about Heisenberg everything is at least a bit uncertain, so it's really just a matter of how big is the variance of the probability distribution of your explanation or prediction.

I know you're just trolling by trying to use "supernatural" as a term for, unknown / uncertain / not fully explained / non deterministic. For me supernatural might be be predicting that the roulete wheel will come up 6 black next time. A way to determine the exact oucome of a process we believe to be non-deterministic.

Of course that supernatural thing (like magnetism was back in the day) will become mundane if and when science can pin it down experimentally. Develop a model with a lower variance estimator.

I'd argue entanglement has beein going through a process from supernatural and spooky when it was only theoretical. To natural now that it's been proven, but theres still a lot of uncertainty. so you might call it peri-natural?

I see the whole process of scientific explanation being moving our understanding of phenomena out of the mystical magical and supernatural realm, into the mundane natural world once we understand more about them and have some well understood (even if weak and incomplete) predictive power.