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I have a very real problem with any guy ever competing in a woman's sport. It's a hard line that should never be crossed. Your biological sex at birth is quite valid, there is no discussion on this topic in the realm of sanity.
This is the line that most sane people also draw, and if you think otherwise you need to get off the Internet.
The sports organizations which allow trans atheletes do exactly that. Example:
https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/049-9_exhibit_i.pdf
"the International Olympic Committee (IOC) determined criteria by which a transgender woman may be eligible to compete in the female category, requiring total serum testosterone levels to be suppressed below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to and during competition."
Good enough for the Olympics? Good enough for me!
Shows how insane our society has become.
The IOC isn't exactly "our society".
Depends how you look at it I guess.
Trans women/girls aren't "guys" - GTFO with that!
If the only puberty someone goes through is a female puberty, where does their advantage come from? Hormone blockers exist for a reason and they do a really good job at delaying puberty for younger trans people.
What you're saying is, that trans women/girls who have gone through a transition before puberty are physically equal to born women. You clearly agree that there must be some regulation at least onto when the transition happened.
The sports organizations which allow trans atheletes do exactly that. Example:
https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/049-9_exhibit_i.pdf
"the International Olympic Committee (IOC) determined criteria by which a transgender woman may be eligible to compete in the female category, requiring total serum testosterone levels to be suppressed below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to and during competition."
Good enough for the Olympics? Good enough for me!
Sorry to correct, but it absolutely is the world we live in. You're fighting to change it.
End of the day, transitioning has many downsides and massive toll. Sorry, but maybe competing has to be one of them. Your example of pre puberty child that then goes to compete doesn't exist, right? Every example brought up is about someone who transitioned after their bodies were "done" growing.
As you said, don't paint it black and white when there is whole lot of grey on both sides.
Why does competing need to be a downside of transitioning? Why does transitioning need any or more downsides?
The original post in this thread was entirely black and white, saying it should be decided at birth. Where's the nuance there?
Where are the trans athletes that are ruining female sports at? Shouldnt we have at least something real to be afraid of? What about men's sports? Noone wants to talk about trans males for some reason, why dont you take issue with them?
Simply, tough.
I'm not writing an essay to address your numerous of accusations because that's been done to death. You're not interested anyway and only want to argue in bad faith. You're just fishing for a gotcha. If all you want is a reason for you to justify dismissing comments, why not just move on?
Asking you to clarify or defend your position is acting in bad faith? I'm sorry you are too tired to engage but thats not my fault. I'm not sure what I would do with a gotcha anyways, I'm not on social media and I dont have anyone to share it with.
Feel free to come back and defend your perspective whenever though, I'll see it in my replies I'm sure.
You might be right, it is a mental fatigue. It's a mine field, be it reddit or Lemmy, they're the same. People are looking for any examples to justify lunging for the throat.
Its not a pretty subject and I have no nice way of saying it. So I'll refrain of diving in deeper. As I said, it's tough and sacrifices have to be made. This is one of them and I'm fin e with them being self regulated and not being called transphobes where public disagrees. I can only comment on things I compete in, and they're all open formats so it's a non issue. But I wouldn't dismiss others and their opinions because it does make sense, steroids and body altering meds are not allowed.
I think we might be well past the days of honest natural sport. Thats not me saying we should be cheating, but trying to get back to that isnt possible, we have to figure this out moving forward not just for women or trans people but for all the other ways science affects sports.
Its not natural that someone with enough money for the best training science can provide them is almost guaranteed to be in the top percentiles of their sport.
What's interesting is that this has been true since at least roman times, with funding going towards training and gear, even if the participants themselves might not be wealthy.
There's also the fact that there are hormone variations across cisgender people.
Wasn't there some sort of controversy a few years ago where a cis woman participant(cant remember if it was the olympics or not)tested high in her natural testosterone levels and was prevented from competing because it gave her an advantage or something?
So it's possible for some cis women to have naturally higher testosterone levels than some trans women.
Hormones are a lot more complex than we think and I feel like all these keyboard endocrinologists are overconfident in their understanding of hormones and how they effect the body.
Experts are still studying this stuff, and if they say there's no significant advantage I'm inclined to believe them. Besides, most anti trans people didn't give a fuck about women's sports until it gave them an opportunity to be hateful.
This.
Trust the expert and the studies. Opinions equals shit against the reality.
If you had a look at the actual statistics, with measures such as "be on hormones for at least X months before competing" in place: Middling athletes stay middling, shoddy stay shoddy, stellar ones stay stellar. If Michael Phelps transitioned and then competed and won it wouldn't be because of being born as a man, but because he's a genetic freak. Ideal limb structure, something about his lactose processing, you name it, he's been born with tons of advantages.
Which brings me to another point: No, the competitions have never been fair. Grit and determination is necessary, but definitely not sufficient, to win the Olympics. Athletes transitioning to get an edge? I believe it when transphobes demonstrate it, under doctor's supervision, on themselves. More likely they'd off themselves due to dysphoria before they could even dream of competing.
Children tend to have parity up until a certain point, I believe thats where some of the concern is at.
Why do you think the exact gender needs to be nailed down right at birth?
You're pissing into the wind here. This crowd is heavy with animal fuckers and confused little cunts
It's hard to understand peoples train of thought here sometimes, that's for sure.
You got any evidence to back up that ridiculous claim? Because it seems that you're just trying to slander people who disagree with you.
Have you seen how many furry porn channels there are.. Almost every day i block futo fox fucker channels and whatever little cunt is posting cartoon animal porn to it. There's the evidence. Go climb back under your rock
You've made a claim. A claim is not evidence.
No, I have not. Not from my instance, lemmy.world (which is the instance we're talking on) or any others that end up in my feed or even the "All" feed.
Have you tried blocking the one single instance that's probably coming from?
Or even just using your feed?
And I hate to break it to you, but one community on the fediverse is not indicative of "this crowd being heavy" with anyone. If that were the case, all social media, and real life, would be.
Get over yourself you jumped up twat. I don't have to provide you with evidence for anything. I understand how the fediverse works.
There are plenty of fucked up little scrotes on here with weird as fuck fetishes and I dont care to see it in my feed. I already block entire instances, communities and anyone who posts fucking weird porn cartoons or political american shit or any other shit I think is retarded. I dont give a shit whatever sordid shit turns you on. I dont need to know about it. Its not all on one instance, or one user and I'm forever filtering it out..
Someone sounds upset.
If you make a claim in an attempt to discredit a whole platform of people, don't be surprised when someone asks you to provide evidence.
Fun fact: you can add certain communities to your feed and only view those. So either you're not using your own feed, or you've added those communities to it.
Sounds like a problem with the instance you picked then. I do not have this issue, and you clearly haven't heard of an NSFW toggle. That or it doesn't work.
Nobody cares if you don't care about other things on the internet. It does not belong to you, you don't get to go on an angry tirade when there are things you don't like, and you definitely don't get to use it to try and slander people who are completely unrelated to it. Learn to properly curate your feed and move on.
You're an insufferable patronising pest aren't you. You're confident for someone who is wrong
Ad hominem/personal insults, the perfect argument winner.
Well since trans women are women and not men that shouldn't be a problem.
What a weird thing to worry about. Stop being weird.
You use words without knowing what they really mean.
Except the whole thing about their natural physiology. People who were born as men just have a more powerful physiology than women. This doesn't change during or after transitioning. Sorry, but you're being weird here.
Oh so strength doesn't decrease when testosterone lowers and estrogen increases, and vice-versa?
Go back to reddit pls
Very inclusive of you.
Why would I want to include bigots / trolls?
Just calling out your hypocrisy. You are either inclusive and change people the right way, or you are no different than that you think you are better than. People who think like you are ignorant and mentally weak.
It's not hypocrisy. Tolerance is a contract if you don't agree to it, it doesn't cover you.
No one asked.
Lol, cope.