this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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    Average systemd debate (lemmy.world)
    submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by renzev@lemmy.world to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
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    [–] savvywolf@pawb.social 134 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    "I hate systemd, it's bloated and overengineered" people stay, perched precariously on their huge tower of shell scripts and cron jobs.

    [–] Damage@feddit.it 51 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    huge tower of shell scripts and cron jobs.

    That's bloat. I start all my services manually according to my needs. Why start cupsd BEFORE I need to print anything?

    [–] EddyBot@discuss.tchncs.de 39 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    thats what systemd sockets are here for

    [–] pmc@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 3 months ago

    or inetd!

    [–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 27 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    “I hate systemd, it’s bloated and overengineered”

    And built poorly by people who don't work well with others and then payola'ed onto the world.

    people stay, perched precariously on their huge tower of shell scripts and cron jobs.

    Fucking UNIX is shell scripts and cron jobs, skippy. Add xinetd and you're done.

    [–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    yeah I just hate the move away from flat text files honestly. Its one thing I did not like about windows NT with the registry. databasing up the config.

    [–] Laser@feddit.org 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    Which part of systemd's config is not text-based? The only "database" it uses for configuration is the filesystem

    [–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    well its text but its just a bit more complex of a flat file. like yaml. like one thing I really liked about cisco ios was how the config file the commands where pretty much the same thing. granted thats not unix but its the simplicity level that is ideal to me.

    [–] Laser@feddit.org 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    systemd config is inspired by INI, with section headers and key-value pairs. It doesn't get much flatter than that. It doesn't compare to YAML or JSON.

    [–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    ini as in windows init files?

    [–] barsquid@lemmy.world 19 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    If systemd was only managing services there would be less opposition. People opposed don't want a single thing doing services and boot and user login and network management and...

    [–] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu 18 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

    Are they also opposed to coreutils being a single project with dozens of executables doing different things?

    [–] barsquid@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago

    IDK, ask them. There are some in this thread. I'm addressing the strawman argument that people against it are luddites set in their ways over their beloved cron jobs.

    [–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    Wait until you learn about debhelper.

    If you use a debian-based system, unless you have actively looked at the DH source, the one thing that built virtually every package on your system, you do not get to say anything about "bloat" or "KISS".

    DH is a monstrous pile of perl scripts, only partially documented, with a core design that revolves around a spaghetti of complex defaults, unique syntax, and enough surprising side effects and crazy heuristics to spook even the most grizzled greybeards. The number of times I've had to look at the DH perl source to understand a (badly/un)documented behavior while packaging something is not insignificant.

    But when we replaced a bazillion bash scripts with a (admittedly opinionated but also stable and well documented) daemon suddenly the greybeards acted like Debian was going to collapse under the weight of its own complexity.

    [–] wax@feddit.nu 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Oh yes, fuck dh with a rusty pole. I've had to paclage some stuff at work, and it's a nightmare. I love having to relearn everything on new compat levels. But the main problem is the lack of documentation and simple guidelines