this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025
493 points (86.0% liked)

Privacy

32740 readers
2976 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

In an unexpected mask off "secure" email and VPN provider Proton took the stance of siding with the fascist MAGA Reps. Proton's services are no option for me and many others any longer. Let's collect and discuss alternatives (E2E encrypted email and VPN) here πŸ”πŸ‘‡

Always try to provide:

-Server location (jurisdiction)

-Governance

-Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency

-User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8)

-Pricing and links

If you know alternative setups, feel free to share, too.

#ProtonExodus

Background: https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116

Edit:typo

(page 4) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 30 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Mullvad is supposed to be a safe and secure VPN.

[–] Lemmchen@feddit.org 17 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

Unfortunately not a mail or storage provider.

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 7 points 16 hours ago

Posteo, Mailbox.org, and Tuta are all good alternatives.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] AnAmericanPotato@programming.dev 27 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

Tuta.com is similar to Proton Mail + Calendar.

  • Location: Germany

  • Governance: Private GmbH (German corporation, similar to an American LLC)

  • Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: Better than Proton IMHO. All their apps are open source and available on F-Droid. They encrypt email headers (unlike Proton, who are weaselly about this in their marketing materials).

  • User Experience: Ehhhh...6? I'm not in the best position to compare because I do not have a premium plan, so I am not able to examine features like inbox rules/filters. Much like Proton, it doesn't support full-text email search unless you have it cache your entire mailbox locally (either via the web site or app). They do not support POP or IMAP, but do offer their own desktop and mobile apps.

  • Pricing: €3/month for 20GB, €8/month for 500GB. https://tuta.com/pricing

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Perhapsjustsniffit@lemmy.ca 25 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

Uggghhh I just upped for two years. Fucking asshats are all caving to the orange fuckhead. Probably off to Europe somewhere.

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Ask them for a cancellation and refund. Don't explain the reason, just say you changed your mind, make up some excuse if they ask.

[–] DeeBeeDouble@lemmy.ml 15 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

Why wouldn't you tell them the reason?

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

Get the money back first, then say the reason. Don't wanna bring up politics in case they wanna be a douche and deny refund.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] hddsx@lemmy.ca 24 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I don’t use proton, but I would be grateful if you could share a link on how Proton sided with fascists.

Also, I use Mullvad for VPN and I host my own email

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 37 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

They didn't exactly "side with fascists", but Andy Yen, one of the board members on the Non-Profit that owns Proton AG, has very bad takes on politics, and just has a right-wing "Libertarian" vibe.

https://x.com/andyyen/status/1864436449942110660 (https://archive.is/l1WYU)

https://x.com/andyyen/status/1812442643726537182 (https://archive.is/ADc8C)

[–] hddsx@lemmy.ca 21 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Huh, I wasn’t very concerned with your links… but I googled and found out Andy Yen is the founder. That’s alarming

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

True, but Tim Brenners-Lee is also on the board, and he historically has generally good takes on tech and politics.

People are often unwilling to go against the positions of the guy who created the World Wide Web.

[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 12 points 17 hours ago

If his presence at proton is the old thing holding back the stupid, then it isn't as good a company as we has been thinking.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] schnapspraline@lemmy.world 17 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (4 children)

My personal recommendations:

https://uberspace.de/

  • Server location (jurisdiction): Germany
  • Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: About-Page
  • User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8): 6
  • Pricing: Based on solidarity, but recommend minimum is 5 € per month

https://www.hostsharing.net/

  • Server location (jurisdiction): Germany
  • Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: well, you own part of hostsharing if you use it (collective-ownership)
  • User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8): 6
  • Pricing: 64 € onetime payment + 10 € per month (cooperative)

Other recommendations:

  • mailbox.org, systemli.org, riseup.net, posteo.de (as far as I know all of them are located in Germany)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] zdhzm2pgp@lemmy.ml 18 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

AFAICT, it looks like all he's doing is praising Trump's pick for AG in the Antitrust division . . . although if you look over her Wikipedia page, you're right, it doesn't look all that encouraging.

Can someone on Mastodon ask the Proton CEO what it was exactly that she did that he likes so much? Anyone who can work at Fox for any length of time, frankly, is complete and utter shite.

EDIT: Also, just as a broken clock can be right twice a day, President πŸ„ sank the Trans Pacific Partnership, which was the right thing to do, but for the wrong reason: mainly to get back at Obama for existing. So in the same way, I suppose it's possible that Slater did something good, but I'd sure like to know what it was.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 12 points 17 hours ago (6 children)

Before you decide to go back to Google or close your account, keep in mind that Proton became a non profit organization with the main mission of protecting your privacy. And as a non profit, they're not trying to profit off of you in any way.

Going back to Google is the worst solution you can use. Remember that Google donated $1 million to Trump's inauguration fund. Google also doesn't care about your privacy. On the contrary, they're selling your data and using it against you.

While the Proton CEO may be a nut case, he's only praising the choice that Trump made as the candidate for the antitrust department. While that's understandably stupid since I don't believe Trump is going up stick up for the little guy now that he's got Musk and Zuck in his pocket, at least he didn't actively donated and enabled Trump either personally or through his platform and spread misinformation.

Think about it.

At least with proton, the fact that you're different, that you're 2SLGBTQ+, is safe. Or at least substantially safer than Google.

[–] lukecooperatus@lemmy.ml 15 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

Why are there so many responses like this, saying not to go back to Google? The OP didn't even mention Google as an option they were considering. I've seen zero discussion in any of the other posts around the fediverse where people have expressed any desire to use Google because of this. Why would anyone think that users who had already moved to Proton would find Google acceptable as an alternative right now?

This just feels like you're trying to discourage actual conversation about alternatives by acting like the only options are Proton or Google, so we all ought to shut up and sit down.

Also, if you think merely becoming a non-profit means a corporation can never exploit people and isn't interested in making money off of it's customers, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 8 points 17 hours ago

Because I looked at the discussion threads for this post and I saw a few early comments where people mentioned they would go back or stick with Google.

I'm not trying to shut down or discourage any discussion. Just pointing out to the people who said they'd go back that it's not the best solution.

[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 10 points 17 hours ago

Yes, proton is about ten thousand times better than google, even with this board member's stupid fully factored in.

[–] whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml 7 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

Safer.

Well, they handed out activists' metadata in the past, for the French authorities. In their position of an e2ee provider who controls both ends as a default, they are in a position where the can fuck people over. This is exactly what Snowden described as someone pointing a gun at you while saying "Relax, I am not gonna use it against you."

So much for safety.

Ah, and my original point was: it is either safe or unsafe, the word saf_er_ means nothing during a genocide.

[–] zdhzm2pgp@lemmy.ml 5 points 15 hours ago

IIRC, this was because the user in question had set a recovery email for their account, which Proton either volunteered or was forced to give to the authorities. Definitely crappy behavior on Proton's part. Don't set a recovery email!

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Horsey@lemmy.world 6 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

In all seriousness, I genuinely feel like the demographics of those making over 250K/year outside of Silicon Valley (proton is from Switzerland which is a center-right country), and outside of the arts industries, is probably bare minimum of lib-center, and probably most likely to be at least fiscally conservative, if not socially as well. Those kind of people are more concerned with maintaining their financial position than the issues plaguing the income classes that the individual has graduated out of.

I don’t think you’re going to find many CEOs that aren’t at least a little right of center or self serving in their business interests.

Getting to the top 1% income bracket is a lot easier than maintaining that financial position.

[–] lazzerot@startrek.website 7 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (2 children)

Protonmail has been my main email provider for the past 7 years, and unless its CEO decides to sell it to Trump or Musk I honestly don't see how his stupid private or not so private opinions are worth the hassle of changing my email for the million things I use my main and all the other emails I registered with Protonmail.
Most rich people have very dubious or outright awful political opinions and unless you're rich enough to have someone build you an alternative or deconnected enough from society/only exist in programmer circles and are able to live entirely on FOSS software I don't see why the average user should care about the CEO's political stance. Maybe that's my ignorant opinion as a European, but would you stop using Linux if you found out Linus Torvalds secretly loves Windows? Probably not.

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 8 points 16 hours ago (6 children)

Your analogy/ example is fucked up and beyond stupid. Protonmail is hosted by the organization. Linus has no access to the Linux systems in the world. Also, thousands have contributed to the Linux ecosystem.

load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] TommySoda@lemmy.world 11 points 19 hours ago

God damnit I literally just got Proton going like 4 days ago.

load more comments
view more: β€Ή prev next β€Ί