I don't get the connection between losing access to tik tok and starting a +20 years journey to learn chinese
this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2025
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I believe that a clickbait title about 400 idiot people starting the first lesson in Duolingo and then quickly quitting without deleting their accounts is the through line here.
This Tiktok ban is going to make people in the US do what they never did before and learn a second language. 万岁
More like start learning a second language and give up after a week.
This may be a stereotype, but TikTok specifically caters to people with short attention spans.
Just as I finally see Chinese culture gaining more global cultural relevance--- and it had to be in order to bypass a ban of an intrusive app.
No one is learning any language using shitty Duolingo all they are learning is how to parrot useless phrases and vocab with no explanation on how to form sentences or actually use the language properly for themselves.
Isn’t Mandarin grammar super easy? It is relatively easy to speak, definitely less so to read/write.
Easy or not that doesnt excuse Duolingos lack of explanation of any rules or concepts present within the language you choose to learn.
I don’t speak Mandarin so I just share what I’ve heard from a friend who does. Supposedly there are very little rules to explain and other than writing system and how exotic it is, it’s one of the easier languages to learn. All of this sounds perfect for Duolingo. Obviously once you get the basics there’s no other way than immersing yourself in a language but that first hurdle should be easier to overcome.
All this hatred for a tool that is bridging the gap between not speaking a language and being able to understand basic sentences.
I speak 4 languages, and when I need surface level basics for a trip, I've found the Duolingo helps get the wrote memory part of see a shape, hear a sound.
For actual terminology or grammar, it's OK, but it doesn't deserve the hype it gives itself. I can make up my own lessons with Google Translate better than Duolingo.
Except for the fact that it is designed to keep you coming back and hopefully paying them for the privaledge whilst making people believe they are learning something useful.
It is in fact counter productive to actually learning a language properly. I used it for a year and a half trying to learn Spanish and in that time I never really learnt anything of worth. On top of that my native Spanish speaking girlfriend told me on numerous occasions that the things it was "teaching" me were flat out incorrect.
I learnt more useful language skills in a month on Busuu than I did in a year and a half using Duolingo. So yes there is a lot of hate because it wasted a lot of my time for absolutely zero benefit and in some cases taught me the wrong things so I had to go back and "unlearn" all the bullshit it constantly pushed to me.
It isn't a tool to bridge a gap, it is a word game designed to get you addicted to "streaks" and then hopefully remove money from your wallet under the guise of teaching you something.
People that seriously want to learn a language should be dissuaded from using this trash app as it is only counter productive to the learning process, they should instead check out Busuu or listen to Language Transfer which is free and vastly superior!
I see what you mean, but I don't think anybody should expect Duolingo, atleast in the early stages, to teach conversation. The streaks are just a way to keep people engaged. That's the biggest issue in education, which is keeping people engaged even during the tough parts.
I do agree though. I use Duo as a method of practice side-by-side learning in an actual language school. My personal opinion is that nothing good ever comes of a single source. I always keep looking for different sources of information.
I also see how this might not be how other people function, so I don't really see any reason to object to your point.
TL;DR - Fair enough. To each their own. Nothing is ever perfect and I agree that you shouldn't charge money for something that isn't "correct". But for the most part, it isn't worthy of hate as much as just distaste? Maybe there's a better word for it.
I used Duolingo for a while (for French and Spanish) but it didn't allow for progress at the rate that I wanted to go. Then I realized that it was holding me back by design, to keep me using the app regularly. I know people who have done well with it, but it wasn't a good fit for me.
I am admittedly salty about my own experience with it which definitely skews me towards the negative view of it, I just dont like to see people jumping on that app and thinking that that alone will see them through learning a language.
I do see your points of using it as a supplement to learning through other methods but also due to the fact that it taught me a few different things that were flat out wrong I just think that there are better supplementary learning resources.
Also personally I really struggle with languages and wasting so much time on that app really destroyed my motivation for learning the language in general and as such my initial momentum has gone and I haven't really progressed at all recently. Engagement is important like you say and I dont think the streaks are a bad idea but the way they implement them is insidious in that it is all tailored to keep you in app and hopefully paying them IMO.
My initial message was more in disgust of the app as a whole, I wouldn't go as far as to say I expressed hate otherwise I'd have used much stronger language but again everyone's opinion on that line will be different. I just dont think it is good at all and if I can dissuade people from using it then I will. Maybe I should have put the alternatives I mentioned in the first comment to balance out the message but it is too late now :D
I found language transfer very weird as you start with way too much english and I guess you need to jump at least 4 hours to learn interesting things
I kind of see what you mean but for me I really liked it as I am not very good at languages at all, maths and science makes more sense to my brain.
I appreciated that they went through and made links with the English language based on the common root that they shared be it Latin or whatever. For me this helped me a lot to understand what was going on in the background of the language and how I could relate it to what I already know.
Everyone learns differently and so will find different methods effecrive. Duolingo was a lot better when it first came about but now it is all about getting people trapped in a loop of feeling like they are learning something when they aren't so they can maintain subscribers.
And it's so fucking slow. Like yeah I remember the word for man and woman please stop asking me to click on it especially with the image next to it..
Its called spaced repetition. Its helpful for people to remember something over repeated learning.
If you find it too easy, you can choose to jump ahead or find better alternatives.
I know spaced repetition, but it's too much repetition and not enough space. The jump ahead feature is bad because you just do the quiz twice until you success then you jumped without knowing previous stuff and you're stuck with once again slow minded repetition just that it's now a more "advanced" vocabulary
Fair enough. I have benefited from Duolingo as a practice tool. But I do see Duo being tedious for people who truly wish to progress faster.
Geez, calm down hater
Hate is justified as it turns people away from actually learning a language
Yeah, isn't that great!..
i tried learning spanish with it, now i know how to order a hamburger with cheese but it won't teach me much else... just the same fucking sentence over and over again. every now and then it drops in a new word and then we're back to the hamburger thing.
Hamburgesa con quesa? Muy bien
I dunno, I found it helped me with German a bit.
Can anyone explain to me what makes TikTok and now this RedNote so much better than the other short form options (YT, Insta... others) that people think learning a completely different and unfamiliar language is not only viable, but the best option?
I want to learn another language for travel purposes, which to me makes sense. I've never had the itch to learn one so I could use a social media platform.
It's not even to go for a TikTok clone, it's more to do with the avoidance of Meta products because they're following Twitter and allowing toxicity and constantly pushing ads and influencers and MAGA. Someone decided hey it would be funny if we just installed an actual Chinese app just out of spite since we're effectively getting censored anyway so getting censored on a chinese app to blow it all up would be funny. It was supposed to be a meme.
Turns out the chinese people on there were mostly excited to get so much attention and an opportunity to talk with americans. Loads of kids there practicing their english, and people felt so welcomed they're trying to learn the language and everything's subtitled in chinese+english because they want to communicate back and make their content accessible to them out of respect. There's plenty of content there to teach chinese to the newcomers too. Bunch decided to stay because it's just pretty nice since the lack of politics and "sensitive" topics it's a very positive and welcoming platform for once.
The whole thing is a completely accidental cultural exchange on a massive scale, and a very rare case where americans and chinese people kind of can talk directly like that. Both sides gets to peek at the other's lifestyle and bond over common things instead of hating on eachother. They aren't learning chinese to use the app, they're learning it to communicate and exchange with the people. The chinese government seems unconcerned and welcoming as an extra fuck you to the US.
The algorithm is surprisingly not really biased nor pushing propaganda. It's happily suggesting me openly queer content (with a lack of hate comments and americans being called out for their hateful comments), they have gun content, they have a car scene, they have their thirst traps (with respectful comments), it's really not all that different than us and not the propaganda machine the US is so concerned about. It kind of leans more left than TikTok if anything, which makes the ban even more questionable.
They said a 216% spike
That could be an extra 15 people
I wouldn’t overthink it. It’s just a youthful rebellion/protest thing. Old people banned an app young people like and young people were like, “Ok, fine. We’ll use a different app, assholes.” And they found one even more Chinese just to be obnoxious.
But to answer your primary question, Instagram is a bloated app with a terrible algorithm made by a garbage company owned by a garbage person. But just as important, Instagram is also where TikTok users’ parents are. Youths don’t want to hang out with friends where their parents are watching. Hell, I’m middle-aged and I was annoyed when my mom followed me on Instagram. Like, “Stay on Facebook, mom. That’s the boomer app.”
I’m sure almost every TikTok user is a YouTube user too. But YouTube Shorts isn’t the same as TikTok. Shorts are basically a way for established creators who make longer, professional videos to make little casual ones between their main video releases. It’s not a drop-in replacement for TikTok. The vibe is different. (If Shorts had been released as a totally separate app with a separate algorithm, it’d be a drop-in replacement for TikTok but they just duct taped it onto YouTube proper.)
Plus, the data and national security excuses were always horseshit. Congress was trying to protect American dominance in social media and during the debate, members of Congress said their issue with TikTok was that it didn’t have an Israel boner. https://forward.com/culture/688840/tiktok-ban-gaza-palestine-israel-antisemitism/
Forward is a publication aimed at a Jewish audience, for the record, so that’s not some antisemitic conspiracy theory.
sick society
I'm pretty sure that this post is a total load of bs.
I've just learned how to say fuck America, 他媽的美國
Que se cague China, América, Rusia... la lista sigue
Stop sucking superpower's dicks
About 15 years ago there was a saying that optimists are learning Russian now.
Pessimists Chinese.
Optimists learn English
Pessimists learn Chinese
Realists learn AK-47
True humans know: chaos language
Unga unga ugh baah baaah
Kuwata (soba) tsuno wovalai Tsurizhi (swakhna) pura alekai Kondəvain (kondəvain) umbu fərtun blonnuwail Shurtətei (skora) chegi hiato
Chinnata (bamba) iferih pulei Lechona (nawa) sowethi anei Shijako (shijako) alekhni fatalinya Nih pisha (fali) unhore sile
Utrashain aforen zhəkuraswa Towa ihatosei, ihatosei tsufralai Utrashain aforen zhəkuraswa Towa ihatosei, ihatosei tsufralai Keisha
Ulilya kozhizhi chachu kaija Nyame fetsu mekri, fetsu mekri ling ganal Ueri manja khutei araku Ali laraga chei, laragath yei shindulo
so instead of 25 people learning Mandarin now there are 79 people learning Mandarin.