this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025

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288

Carney orders review of F-35 fighter jet purchase from U.S.’s Lockheed Martin (www.ctvnews.ca)

submitted 7 hours ago by HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works to c/canada@lemmy.ca

49 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Prime Minister Mark Carney has asked for a review of Canada’s plan to purchase a fleet of F-35 fighter jets.

The deal with Lockheed Martin and the U.S. government is for 88 planes at a cost of about US$85 million each.

A spokesperson for Defence Minister Bill Blair said Carney has asked Blair to look into whether the F-35 contract is the best investment for Canada, or if there are better options.

“We need to do our homework given the changing environment, and make sure that the contract in its current form is in the best interests of Canadians and the Canadian Armed Forces,” Blair’s press secretary Laurent de Casanove said.

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[–] AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 20 points 4 hours ago

Can I interest you in a Eurofighter Typhoon?

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 12 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Canada could do the funniest thing rn by buying J-35s at half the price.

[–] BetaBlake@lemmy.world 9 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

It would be funny, but damn I would not want to buy military equipment from china

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

China is Canada's second biggest trade partner, unless they're planning to follow America to war with China, what's the problem? Especially because it's for a military that was designed for the singular purpose of defending itself from an American invasion over the last 70 years.

[–] Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca 10 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

It always seemed strange that Canada would agree (how much arm twisting?) to buy a plane that won't work well in our Arctic. We are committed to buying 16 jets but it would probably be better to buy the rest elsewhere or put our money into homegrown solutions. Maybe drones or other machines.

[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 hours ago

Excuse me sir, may I interest you in Gripen? Cold weather tested, fascist free, and oh so stylish. Book your test flight today!

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 8 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Maybe we should be looking at what we need for city close quarters defenses and guerilla fighting.

[–] LostWon@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

If they do plan on invading, it will probably involve them coming from the North as well, and not just the South-- especially if they were to occupy Greenland first.

[–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 11 points 4 hours ago

Messing with the military industrial complex is not the smartest move for Trump. All that will do is turn the military against him.

[–] brax@sh.itjust.works 31 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Seems stupid to buy defense resources from a country that could become hostile. Do any European companies have anything to offer? I get that GOS and a lot of resources are still probably going to come from the USA but right now, the less the better.

[–] CircaV@lemmy.ca 21 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

It also seems stupid to keep importing on a mass scale the culture, news, entertainment, media, and media platforms of a country that wants to invade Canada. Yet here we are.

[–] BetaBlake@lemmy.world 4 points 2 hours ago

I mean to be fair this hostility is being perpetrated by one man and just in the past 2 months. Zero of those things would change in that short amount of time.

[–] fourish@lemmy.world 10 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I would be thrilled if all American social media was blocked 100%. Sweep the trolls back into their caves.

[–] CircaV@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 hours ago

I’d love that too.

[–] AlolanVulpix@lemmy.ca 8 points 5 hours ago

List of Canadian Alternatives to American owned media pretending to be Canadian

[–] Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca 11 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

The Swedish Saab Gripen would be a good choice. It would include assembly and maintenance in Canada.

https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/focus-what-could-be-the-option-for-canada-to-replace-f-35-fighter-jet-acquisition-after-political-tensions-with-us

[–] slingstone@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

I read somewhere they operate with a licensed American engine, and that some European nations are trying to replace it with a non-American one.... Yeah, it's a development of an F-18 engine.

[–] hikuro93@lemmy.ca 43 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Heck yeah. Go Carney.

With love from Portugal. 🇵🇹🤝🇨🇦

[–] Kyle_The_G@lemmy.world 12 points 6 hours ago

Welcome to the carnival!

CARNAGE!

[–] Punchshark@lemmy.ca 66 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Fuck yeah! Canada will vote with its dollar!

[–] Sixtyforce@sh.itjust.works 18 points 5 hours ago

He's keeping up decorum but yeah these jets are done. You can't buy military equipment from an enemy and the jets would have to be serviced in the USA over their lifetime.

[+] queermunist@lemmy.ml -6 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Canada. Doesn't. Need. Fighter. Jets.

[–] Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Maybe you should pay better attention to what is going on in the world right now.

[+] queermunist@lemmy.ml -6 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

Is Russia going to invade Canada? 🙄

I fucking hate how liberals have turned into NatSec war hawks and are demanding every country from Canada to Portugal buy more fucking fighter jets. Instead of wasting money on the MIC how about they invest in their people?

[–] HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Trump has said on multiple occasions that Canada WILL become the 51st state. In order to keep at least a modicum of democracy alive here we must fight to save it, because every form of diplomacy we've tried has failed.

Trump wants Canada under his thumb, and when someone tells you who they are and what they want, believe them.

So yes, we need everything we can get to help the nation survive, including fighter jets ... although tbf I'm not even sure we'd get them in time. But we have to try, no matter what.

If that's not your thing, fine. You have every right to choose differently. But don't condemn those of us who are willing to fight.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

Trump says a lot of stupid shit.

But let's entertain the idea that he's serious and that he will be allowed to start a war on Canada. Do you think Canada can buy enough jets to even matter? Can you even imagine how much that would cost? Is there even enough productive capacity in the world for those jets to be delivered in less than ten years? Come on.

If it comes to a fight against the US the best strategy is guerilla warfare. It's been tried and tested from Vietnam to Iraq!

[–] HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 hour ago

Trump says a lot of stupid shit.

Yes he does, but strangely enough he's followed through with a lot more of it in his 2.0 incarnation.

Do you think Canada can buy enough jets to even matter?

As I said previously I'm not even sure we could have any delivered before the conflict began. But that shouldn't negate us at least trying.

Can you even imagine how much that would cost?

Yes, billions of dollars.

Would you also recommend that Ukraine stop spending money it doesn't have to fight Russia? I sure hope not.

Is there even enough productive capacity in the world for those jets to be delivered in less than ten years?

Already answered more than once.

If it comes to a fight against the US the best strategy is guerilla warfare.

Agreed. That is what we will end up in. I'm wondering why you wouldn't want more fighting power tho?

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 28 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

There was the "kill switch" rumour recently that trump (any president) can remotely disable any/all f35s they wanted to

It's probably not true, but the truth is just as disasterous for foreign buyers.

A shutdown of parts out of US does essentially the same and is much easier to do on a whim and withhold the solution in negotiations.

People weren't just buying US because "we're the best" it's because we could be relied on for support, because no one fucksnwith the US military industrial complex

trump is tho, and that's a hell of a lot more dangerous for a politician than pissing off day traders

[–] Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca 18 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

They require maintenance in the US. How well would that work if the US was invading us?

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 14 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

...

Yes, that is the point I am making, and the argument your government is making for canceling the contract.

If trump were to cut off logistical support for that or any other whim, they would have to be mothballed.

[–] Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca 10 points 5 hours ago

The SAAB would be much better as they allow local parts manufacture and local maintenance.

[–] Whorehoarder@lemmynsfw.com 4 points 5 hours ago

They don't give any access to the stealth tech either, as far as I understand

[–] Tm12@lemmy.ca 26 points 6 hours ago

Something we can train on and maintain within our borders please.

[–] nao@sh.itjust.works 17 points 6 hours ago

maybe don't rely on fighter jets than can possibly be disabled remotely by someone talking about invading you

[–] DogPeePoo@lemm.ee 10 points 6 hours ago

Lockheed Martin — ”We specialize in destroying the lives of brown people, come fly with us”

[–] snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world 11 points 6 hours ago

They can pay me in maple syrup.

[–] aviationeast@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

Gonna need a tariff...

[–] kbal@fedia.io 0 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

For the $70 billion it would apparently cost in total to have these super fancy fighter jets, they could instead build a million new low-cost housing units and still have some money left over to work on inventing innovative air defence systems that aren't so expensive..

[–] HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works 14 points 5 hours ago

6 months ago I would have agreed with you. Unfortunately now we have to focus on saving Canada.

[+] Grimpen@lemmy.ca -6 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (5 children)

F-35 is the most advanced aircraft currently available. We've also already sunk enough money into the program to pay for the first 16 IIRC. This puts us in an awkward position, considering the possibility of degraded functionality of the F-35 without US assistance^1^.

One of the worst ways to balloon military spending without getting anything in return is to keep changing your mind and hanging procurement up in endless indecision. Combined with the money already spent, I think we have to stick with F-35 for at least a bit.

I like the Gripen, and I'd suggest a switching some of our 88 fighters to Gripen's, but apparently Gripen's aren't that much cheaper.

Long term though, I think Canada should get in on GCAP, the Global Combat Air Program. It's not expected to deliver until 2035 if everything sticks to plan, so we'd still need the F-35 or Gripens I was mentioning in the interim.

^1^ My understanding is that the "kill-switch" myth is pretty much that, a myth. There are software systems that depend on the US, apparently ALIS/ODIN, plus the MDF file updates. The possibility of a kill-switch can't be totally excluded IMO though, there is a lot of software in the F-35, and the US writes and patches it all. Even if there isn't a kill-switch, the US knows what vulnerabilities they are patching, and if any of them where exploitable, I'd imagine they'd know.

[–] Fluke@lemm.ee 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

The key thing you're missing here is that the programming of the ECM pod, the thing that makes the F-35 able to do what it does, the thing it's just an average 6th gen fighter without, is only done by US personnel.

Even if you could make the entire plane locally, parts wise, the US will not ever give out the pod code. Ever.

Because without it, the plane is worth less than nothing, it's a liability.

[–] Greg@lemmy.ca 11 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

F-35 is the most advanced aircraft currently available

As long as you can service and maintain them. Without a reliable supply chain for parts and servicing, they’re just expensive decorations.

[–] bulwark@lemmy.world 9 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Absolutely. This is the true "kill switch". Turning off support for most US made weapons means killing them.

[–] Fluke@lemm.ee 5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

As I've said elsewhere the ECM pod updates can only be done by US staff. Without this week's pod frequencies to hit the latest radar frequencies, the plane is a liability in the air because of it's cost.

There is no way the US is going to code "enemy" planes' ECM.

The F-35 program may well flatline from this upset.

[–] bulwark@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago

Uncle Sam keeps his ECM frequencies under a pretty tight lock and key, speaking as someone who's had to service ALQ-99 pods.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 15 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Saab is offering to move part of the production to Canada, Trump might prevent US defense contractors from having facilities outside the US... So... Yeah

[–] Grimpen@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 hours ago

This is one of the reasons I really liked the Saab offer. Supporting a domestic aerospace defence industry is probably a good strategic aim.

GCAP would also offer a chance to foster our domestic aerospace industry.

There are other combinations that achieve much the same though. FCAS (Future Combat Air System) is similar to GCAP, a joint France, Germany and Spain project, but it isn't scheduled to deliver until 2040.

I am in no position to know what's "best", but it's undeniable that there are some good options. It's unfortunate though that there will be a cost to pay that we went with F-35 all those years ago. Still don't have a Canadian F-35 in the air.

Another piece of trivia, that I really don't know if significant is that Sweden nearly joined GCAP. If we went with Gripen and GCAP, and Sweden rejoined GCAP there might be opportunities for long term partnerships. Then again I think there are similar opportunities with Eurofighter and FCAS.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 5 points 5 hours ago

F-35 is the most advanced aircraft currently available

in west, but it may also be too advanced as root cause of its reliability and maintenance cost problems.

sunk enough money into the program to pay for the first 16

should demand refund for those 16.

apparently Gripen’s aren’t that much cheaper.

$85m vs $109m is a fair bit cheaper. Again, the maintenance costs and flight readiness metrics matter significantly.

There are software systems that depend on the US, apparently ALIS/ODIN, plus the MDF file updates.

We don't need to focus on whether there is a "mid air kill switch or not", when we know there is a "make this a paper weight switch". Naive or disingenuous of you to say "if Lockheed finds a kill switch, they would surely patch it out"

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 4 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Also, even without any malicious back doors it is still likely far easier to attack the software and electronic vulnerabilities of the aircraft as you said.