this post was submitted on 09 Apr 2025
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I have been avoiding multiplayer Valve games like Counter-Strike 2 and Team Fortress 2, due to their in-game economies that have created an underage gambling gray market, which Valve has done little about. However, I am on Linux, and the choices for multiplayer shooters are few. Besides, my small boycott is not stopping Counter-Strike 2 from being the most played steam game. Are boycotts really the best solution to stop this epidemic in gaming? How can we best prevent these gambling grey markets and the gaming to gambling addiction pipeline?

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[–] slazer2au@lemmy.world 94 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 30 points 3 months ago

I started my protest a decade ago.

While you can argue that nothing happened and we still have loot boxes, I'd argue that my life is greatly enriched for not feeling any motivation to play in those looty skinner box games.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 70 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You should not put your time or money into anything doing something that you don't like in the marketplace, because that's the only way it changes.

[–] gandolfini_the_grey@lemm.ee 9 points 3 months ago (3 children)

This is a very smart and thoughtful perspective. One should consider their time and money as valuable, and not put it in games they disagree with. Do you have any good alternatives to recommend for the most popular Valve FPSs?

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You might not like my answer, but I haven't really played new FPS games in years, because basically none of them are doing what I want. I'm well served in basically every other genre right now, but these things are cyclical. We're just getting through the era of indie FPS games inspired by Doom/Quake and other more maze-like shooters, and we may soon be entering the era where FPS games are inspired by my favorites. My multiplayer these days is usually fighting games, and the only ones that will give you trouble on Linux are Dragon Ball FighterZ and the upcoming 2XKO, both due to anti cheat.

As an aside, I'll also say that where you put your time shouldn't matter, if the product is free, for instance, but it does matter in online video games. Your presence in matchmaking is adding value for someone else who might spend money in the game, so you'd still be helping the causes of CS2 and TF2 just by playing on the official servers. For TF2, I think the code just went open source and there's a revitalization project to bring it back to what it was like at launch? If so, that might be pre-loot-box, and playing that version of the game would help send the message you want to send. The same might apply to old versions of Counter-Strike.

[–] gandolfini_the_grey@lemm.ee 5 points 3 months ago

That's a fine answer, thanks!

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[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 38 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Many of us have been doing this from the beginning, but it represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how gacha games work.

Most people do not pump loads of money into these. Many don’t pay anything at all. But those people are not the target audience. These companies are going after the whales. Basically gambling addicts who will destroy their entire lives to pump everything they have into it.

Which is exactly why these games either need to be illegal, or the law needs to put caps on how much individuals are permitted to spend on these.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Don't get me started on magic the gathering

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[–] TheGreenWizard@lemmy.zip 20 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Just play "Team Fortress 2 Classic" or "Open Fortress" both are really cool community projects without crates, or any micro transactions as far as I know.

[–] gandolfini_the_grey@lemm.ee 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Those projects look great! I will have to check both those out. My problem with a lot of community FPS games is that the community is just too small to play regularly (like Xonotic, for instance).

[–] TheGreenWizard@lemmy.zip 5 points 3 months ago

Yea, thats where you'll find some issues sadly. I'm not a regular but I manage to find one or two servers with a decent player count most of the time.

[–] madjo@feddit.nl 17 points 3 months ago

Don't pre-order and don't buy games that have loot boxes or other in-app purchases.

[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I've been boycotting them for years yet we all can see how that turned out

[–] kazerniel@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

Yeah the problem with boycotts and "vote with your wallet" is that one whale can offset the boycott of thousands of low-spending players 😐

[–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 15 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I've bought singleplayer games with loot boxes and no anticheat and just used cheat engine to get the ingame currency for them. I think I'm doing my part.

[–] natryamar@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago (4 children)

WTF there are singleplayer games with lootboxes?!?!?

[–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)
[–] MellowYellow13@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Now I realize why i never play those games

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[–] mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

The Gatcha system is why I never finished Xenoblade Chronicles 2. The first game was phenomenal… But the second game required a gatcha system to unlock new party members. There were even quests that were locked behind certain ultra-rare party members. It’s an entirely single player game.

[–] kcweller@feddit.nl 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You're not though, you are still buying those games. Go the extra mile and pirate them if you really feel the need to play games containing loot box mechanics while trying to "stick it to them"

[–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 3 points 3 months ago

empress is dead

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 14 points 3 months ago
[–] Raiderkev@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago

I already do, but I'm also not as avid a gamer as I once was. Every FPS became borderline unplayable when loot crates became a thing. Call me old fashioned, but I liked when games had the same weapons for everyone, and there weren't random cards or whatever that made people's guns more powerful / reload /shoot faster, etc. It really brings an imbalance to the game, and enables these stupid gambling sites. The companies making the games are making money hand over fist, so they aren't going to stop any time soon barring regulation, and looking at this administration, good fucking luck with that. Boycott away.

[–] 60d@lemmy.ca 13 points 3 months ago

Already boycott lootboxes and gacha games.

Sell me the game and give free updates or fuck off. I'm done paying you to be your beta tester.

[–] kazerniel@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Are boycotts really the best solution to stop this epidemic in gaming?

Consumer boycotts very very rarely work. I've never heard of a single successful video game boycott.

How can we best prevent these gambling grey markets and the gaming to gambling addiction pipeline?

Lobby for appropriate legislation with your government representatives. We could have legislation that forces companies to transparently show the chance of specific rewards, and even show the money you have to spend on average to get XY specific item. (I think there is already a law like this in the works in the EU?)

One of the major psychological tricks gambling games (including lootbox and gacha) employ is to obscure the true costs behind premium currencies. Once they are forced to remove this, and you are shown that yes, guaranteed acquisition of a single Genshin character will cost you ~300 USD, it might make you do a double-take before you pull out your bank card. (There are many more psychological dark patterns these developers employ, so it wouldn't be a single miracle solution, unless of course legislation altogether bans random chance rewards buyable with cash.)

[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

If you are not their target audience then you can‘t really boycott them in the first place. And in my opinion there is no harm in playing a game with loot boxes when you don‘t buy them. They aren’t really getting anything out of non-spenders. That’s not how their servers keep running. And most f2p games that I encounter nowadays do season passes without the random factor anyway, so I feel the loot box discussion is becoming a little outdated for the main stream. Thank goodness.

I‘ve also noticed multiple times that this community has a gripe with multiplayer games for some reason. It‘s better to take anything from online strangers with a grain of salt.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Are boycotts really the best solution to stop this epidemic in gaming?

Yes, but not if you don't convince others to join you.

How can we best prevent these gambling grey markets and the gaming to gambling addiction pipeline?

Educate people on the dangers. Show them why it's gambling, because there's a lot of apologetics out there to trick people into thinking it's not. Point out the same slot-machine-tactics they use to get people hooked.

And then convince them to boycott. The CEOs that put this shit in games know how to read sales numbers, and if sales start dropping (or player counts), they'll soon figure out that it's because of their lootbox/gacha systems.

Lastly, give people alternatives. I usually point people to Deep Rock Galactic, but there may be others that are better suited to people's tastes. "Just leave" isn't really effective if they don't know where to go.

[–] gandolfini_the_grey@lemm.ee 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Deep Rock Galactic looks amazing!

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 4 points 3 months ago

It's a blast! The devs listen to and are involved in the community, you can go back and play earlier season content at your discretion, and all the paid content is optional cosmetics that exist primarily as an additional revenue stream for the devs, so no pay to win or praying to RNGesus to get that one ultra rare drop everyone needs.

[–] Infynis@midwest.social 9 points 3 months ago

Maybe I'm just an old man now, but it's been years since I was interested in a game with lootboxes. I think the last one I played was Overwatch, back when it originally came out

[–] GreyCat@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

While I agree with the spirit of moat answers, I don't think that the few of us boycotting such popular games will harm or affecg them at all. We are a very small minority.

However, I do think we can support a sustainable niche market of good and sensible games.

So I think a it's a better use of anyone's time to try and support good games than spend your energy on bad games.

[–] moody@lemmings.world 4 points 3 months ago

More important than who you choose not to give your money to is who you do choose to give it to.

[–] JakobFel@retrolemmy.com 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

No, if anything, we need to boycott games with battle passes. I'm not a fan of lootboxes but I'd take them any day over a battle pass. Don't pressure me to play specific ways, don't exploit FOMO to try to get me to grind or spend money. I find that a LOT more predatory than lootboxes, at least in games where they're optional.

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[–] Jaysyn@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I've never bought or played one & have no plans to.

[–] ILaughBecauseFunny@feddit.dk 6 points 3 months ago

One of the reasons why Valheim is one of my favorite games these days... You buy it and then you play it... No loot boxes, no in game shop, Doesn't force you to be online and a minimal amount of RNG at all... But the grind is real though...

[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Do I have to start playing games with loot boxes before I can start boycotting them?

The only one I've ever played was overwatch, but overwatch 2 is garbage, so...

[–] MellowYellow13@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Sad what happened to that game. OG Overwatch was freaking awesome, OW2 is complete garbage.

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[–] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Yes but loot boxes is gambling and is an addiction and gaming companies know this and exploit this.

[–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 months ago

Are boycotts really the best solution to stop this epidemic in gaming? How can we best prevent these gambling grey markets and the gaming to gambling addiction pipeline?

No, boycotts do fucking nothing. The only thing that could make a difference is regulations to properly label these type of thing as gambling and even that is not very likely to succeed. They make a lot of money with gambling.

Should we boycott games with loot boxes?

Do if you want to do it.

[–] whotookkarl@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Do what you think is right, but spend some time to consider whether you want to reward someone or some organization with your hard earned money if you consider what they are doing immoral or bad.

[–] TimeNaan@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

Yes, have been from the start.

The only good lootbox game was Borderlands 2

[–] DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 months ago

~~Loot~~ Skinner box

And absolutely

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

No, we should see that they are made illegal.

[–] FeelzGoodMan420@eviltoast.org 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Video game boycotts are an absolute fucking joke. Especially if organized here. I mean what % of consumers are on Lemmy? Like 0.00000000000000001%? For fuck sake.

[–] rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Come on, it's gotta be at least 10^-7^%.

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[–] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 months ago
[–] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I pretty much can't play anything any more because I refuse to play anything with loot boxes or timers or in-game currency.

There are very few games on Android you can just buy and play casually to relax for a few hours.

[–] vxx@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Stardew Valley

Balatro

Slay The Spire

Lichess

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