This is (fortunately) why there's a maximum size on insects. The environment is less oxygen rich today than in the eras of giant insects in the past. They reach a size where oxygen can't penetrate deeply enough onto their bodies.
this post was submitted on 16 Apr 2025
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It's all based on a very fundamental mathematical law: if you increase the size of something, the volume increases with the third power while the surface area increases with the second power. An insect twice as large would be 8x as heavy and need 8x as much oxygen but 4x as much surface area.
That's also the reason why insects are as strong as they are. The strength of a muscle scales primarily with the cross section area of it, which again scales with the second power. So if you'd increase the weight of an ant by a factor 10,000,000 (e.g. 5mg to 50kg), the expected strength would increase by 10,000,000^(2/3) ≈ 46,400. If it could lift 10x it's weight at the original size, it could now only lift about 4.6% of it's weight
Square Cube Law
Reminds me of how the damage to roads scales with the weight of the vehicle to the 4th power, so someone driving a 6000lb pickup does 16x more damage to roads than a 3000lb sedan
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maybe once I have money for hobbies, but I really want to make oxygen rich terrariums, and selectively breed tarantulas to see if I can make them larger.
No!
Keep in mind it will be inherently escape proof.
if I manage to make meter wide spiders, they would suffocate as soon as they leave the enclosure.
although If they get big enough, I could have oxygen breathers I could attach to their tracheas.
try escaping my giant semi mechanised murder wasps
This is giving Island of Dr. Moreau
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On lungless insects. If they develop to be larger they will get lungs!
As long as they mutate it
As lung* as they mutate it.
Yeah giant insects would be utterly terrifying (and deadly).
Insects don't have lungs. It also means their potential size is directly limited by the oxygen content in the air.
Which is why we don't see cat sized insects roaming around.
Which is why you don't see cat sized insects roaming around, I live next to a tarantula trail and some of them fuckers get BIG.
Spiders aren't insects. Though like them, they don't have lungs! Not ones like ours, anyway.
tarantulas do indeed have lungs though
Arachnids are not insects though.
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"I've been trying to quit smoking. I want to take better care of my spiracles"
Wait until this person hears about fish.
Like most others I have not read the article. But someone please answer me this:
If the bees fell asleep, then why didn't the fire kill them? I can accept that insects don't have lungs, I mean some people are doing well without hearts... but am I supposed to accept that bees are also immune to fire damage?
The bees were on a different lower down roof from the main roof (which is the one that burned). The article notes that bee wax melts at 70C and they didn't see any of that under the hives, so they know temperatures stayed below that. So the bees were likely only exposed to some smoke and maybe some slightly elevated temperatures.
Put simply smoke doesn't have to be hot. Smoke is just unburnt fuel caused by a process called offgassing (solid turning to a gas).
An example of cooled down smoke is a fire that starts in a well sealed room. It burns through as much fuel as possible, and while the solids are hot they turn into gas, however, due to a lack of oxygen, you don't necessarily see combustion. So then the fire snuffs itself out and what you are left with is a cooling smoke.
So let's say that the fire is on an upper floor. Heat goes up, cold goes down. So as smoke travels through a building it cools, and may eventually sink towards the ground or a lower level (this can be especially possible in a building as large as a cathedral) smoke sinks and interacts with bees at a "manageable temperature".
Tldr: smoke isn't always hot. The bees are happy.
Why doesn't the damaging and hot particulate matter in smoke do any harm to or otherwise clog up their spiracles like it does to the inner lining of lungs? I gather lungs are wet and also very delicate, but if they're directly oxygenating their organs through these spiracles eventually it must get to somewhere wet and delicate for the smoke to get in and potentially harm.
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don't beekeepers use smoke or some such?
Yup. It simulates a forest fire and encourages them to gorge themselves on honey and leave the hive. They get less protective of the hive (because they think it is doomed) which makes it easier to work. They will check back in under an hour to see if the hive made it, and if so, will regurgitate the honey back and continue on with their day.
Bees are so fricking cool.
Fun additional bee fact! Bee hives have personalities and each hive has a different one! Some hives are very easy going and have no problems being worked. Other hives don’t like to be touched and will get defensive quickly. When working hives, one of the things you look for is bees lining up on the edge of a frame staring you down. If you see that, hit them with some more smoke else you are about to be stung!
Love it! More!!!!
Bees navigate using the sun. It doesn’t really seem that they make a map, but more seem to know where they are by the process of directions that got them there. When they return to the hive they just reverse the way they got there. If you stand in front of the entrance to a bee hive for a few minutes then turn around to face away from the hive, you will see a swarm of bees flying in a holding pattern waiting for you to move so they can return. Once you move the entrance to the hive gets really busy. They don’t seem to know to go around you, they just wait till the path is clear!
You realize I would have you posting bee facts all day if I could, right?
Here’s another for the road: mites are a big problem for bees. They latch on to the bees and the bees don’t feel them. One way bee keepers can encourage bees to clean themselves and knock off the mites is by covering the bees in powdered sugar! This makes it look like there are a bunch of powder white bees flying around for a while.
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am i the only one who notices that this logic makes no sense? it doesnt matter that they have no lungs, they still are susceptible to both heat and airborn toxins, they perform gas exchange. They lived because the heat and smoke were below lethal toxic levels for them.
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They breathe their own farts. Well.
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