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The news just said that Israel is withholding fuel as Hamas might use it.
Next will be we’re withholding food as Hamas might eat some.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. What Hamas did was terrible, but Israel has done is no better.
The fact that for one side in a war collateral damage is acceptable is fucking disgusting and it makes me ashamed to be a human.
I condemned my own country (UK) when we helped invade Afghanistan and Iraq and murdered civilians.
The news just said that Israel is withholding fuel as Hamas might use it.
They left out the part where Israel is committing ethnic cleansing out in the open.
That’s because Israel is the only nation on Earth seemingly except from criticism, else you’re labelled an anti-Semite.
Yup. I've always said #FuckIsrael, but i get labelled an antisemite for saying it. Fucking israel is not innocent in all this. Fuck.
It's extra fun when it's Jewish groups doing the protesting.
If we follow Israeli logic, we would have to deny all of Israel food, water and medicine, because their government is committing war crimes and acts of terrorism.
That would be totally absurd.
But somehow, our western leaders find this logic acceptable when applied to Palestinians.
And fucking zionist assholes are given the time of day to say that Palestinians are not animals because comparing them to animals would be an insult to animals. Fucking disgraceful. I know Hamas did some unspeakably terrible and should be punished for them, but fucking oppressing the people of Palestine and treat them to sub human conditions over decades only to get mad and offended that they got fed up with your shit only to treat them even less tells so much about your upbringing and your mental state.
Sorry, had to rant.
Yes but at the same time. The exact same people were also supported by other countries. What did they do with that support? They made weapons from them. New waterpipes? New attack rocket.
how much fuel is hamas hoarding right now?
I'm guessing you mean Hamas' military branch? Because it's the Hamas Government that is running out of fuel, plus all the UNRWA schools and NGO hospitals.
So even if Hamas' military has fuel, It's not enough for 2 million people, so it doesn't matter.
This siege is preventing basic goods from entering to innocent civilians. Trying to get people to look away is really lame.
It's 500,000 liters. You don't just get to say that doesn't matter. Especially when the fuel the UN brought in was also stolen by Hamas. If Hamas is stealing and hoarding all the fuel, then they do carry the blame for the lack of fuel. What good is it doing anyone if everything there will just be stolen by Hamas and then used for further attacks?
The lack of fuel is caused by Israeli illegal blockage on Gaza (which is also a war crime btw). Yes, there is a chance the military side of Hamas has fuel tucked away, but the main cause is still Israel stopping any goods from entering.
By the end of today, if volunteers can no longer bring fuel to the hospitals, about 130 babies are risking death within minutes without incubators. Let's not fucking kid ourselves... Israel is the problem. Whatever Hamas "steals" as you claim (something the UNRWA later denied) is only a drop in the ocean when we talk about 2 million residents who haven't gotten basic needs that would normally flow into Gaza on a daily basis.
What good is it doing anyone if everything there will just be stolen by Hamas and then used for further attacks?
Those 130 babies will literally not die. For starters.
How are you ignoring the fact that Hamas takes the fuel. The UN just said they had their fuel stolen. So those babies will die, more Israelis will die, and more Palestinians will die.
If the UN had forces guarding supplies and stopping theft, that might be different. But you are asking Israel to allow in supplies that are be and will continue to be stolen and used in attacks against Israel. Ignoring that it will not save civilians.
If they actually get it. Hamas has already shown they will take it and not give it to their citizens.
Unless Hamas decides to prioritize its citizens, there is nothing the world can do and they are dead.
Hamas has already shown they will take it and not give it to their citizens.
So, to Israel, are Gazans less important? Because Israel as already shown they will bomb the Rahah checkpoint and not allow fuel in knowing full well it's needed for generating electricity and providing clean water?
I'm genuinely asking: what do you think is Israel's responsibility towards civilians in Gaza and their own hostages stuck in Gaza as well?
That's a hell of a what about ism.
Putting pressure on the population like this, is putting pressure on the government to spend critical resources, to make them less capable of fighting a war. It is a valid, and historically often used, siege strategy.
The main point, is the civilians in Gaza are trapped, they're not allowed to leave, they don't have water, they don't have power to make water, they are suffering. That's the takeaway, ending the suffering should be the goal.
Even if Hamas gave up all of their fuel reserves, which the reserving for the ground assault they've been told is coming, even if they gave up all of their fuel, the siege would not be ended, and the civilians would still not have water. It might be delayed by a day. But it doesn't change the situation that exists right now
The agency, known as UNRWA, posted its warning on social media on Tuesday. The Israel Defense Forces reposted it and said that Hamas militants have more than 500,000 litres of fuel in tanks inside besieged Gaza.
That doesn't sound a lot tbh... If you calculate with 2M people there, it's just 0.25 litres per person. I don't think that would be sufficient to filter vast amounts of water.
Also, why haven't the fuel tanks been destroyed in the strategic military focused air bombings? Obviously they've been identified so that they can be reported on
No, they just managed to get a good look at fuel tanks (but no information about the content)... and yet when they bomb "terrorists" in Gaza with heir super x-ray vision, they still manage to kill 40% children.
I think this is simply a function of the asymmetry of the military forces involved. The Israeli military has full control of the air, long range artillery, modern western weapons. They can destroy any target they want easily.
Therefore any installation Hamas has that's separated from the population, will have already been destroyed in the early phases of the conflict 20 years ago. Anything they build that's away from population centers would be immediately destroyed.
Perhaps it's an unintended consequence but the emerging behavior is the only military installations that survive are near civilian populations. It doesn't help that the population density of the conflict area is incredibly high, with the majority of the population being children. Meaning there's children everywhere around every target. Because any target that's not around children would have been destroyed already.
And none of this has to do with the intentions of either side, it's just the asymmetric capabilities creating de facto emergent behavior. It's not that Hamas is trying to use human shields, they have no other practical choice. And before the exasperated brigade starts to dogpile me, this is just the reality of war, it's not an apology.
it’s just the asymmetric capabilities creating de facto emergent behavior
Yes, but you still need someone to pull the trigger, and then you need 10 other nations to say "it's the right to self defense" to make it okay.
It's might + intent, not one without the other.
Because the government of Israel has asymmetric strength in this conflict, it makes them more responsible to move towards peace. Simply because they have most of the capabilities.
Blaming Hamas is completely valid, Hamas is a bad actor.
Blaming the Palestinian people is not valid, Israel the country with its asymmetric capabilities is the responsible one to bring the populations towards peace.
As the last 60 years of demonstrated, using your asymmetric power to just bomb a population into submission, might buy you a respite, but does not end the cycle of violence
Counting it towards to number of people is a little silly. Checking how long a generator can run off of a liter of fuel makes much more sense.
On top of that, not only are they hoarding, but they are also stealing what comes in.
I quickly googled some numbers, so no guarantee for 100% correctness.
Desalination uses about 3.6kWh/m3 of water. A generator can produce around 1.5kWh/litre of fuel. 500,000 litres of fuel would result in 750,000 kWh. 750,000 kWh would result in 208,333 m3 or 208,333,000 litres of water. That theoretically would allow you to create around 200 litres per person if you use the entire amount of fuel on water desalination.
But this calculation only works in a hypothetical scenario and not in a real life scenario. Distribution of the water to all the people will require a lot of energy as well, e.g. for tank trucks. And I think in an active war zone you probably won't find world class logistics.
Furthermore, you also need fuel and electricity for other critical infrastructure: firetrucks, hospitals, phones, cooking, ...
Why would anyone believe their estimates? They've been dropping bombs on civilian houses claiming they're havens for terrorists and didn't even see an attack that appears to have been prepared for completely out in the open. Their vaunted intelligence services seem to be more the result of a good branding campaign than actual competence.
Why don't paltestinians work with Israel to get rid of Hamas ASAP?
Why don't Palestinians work with their oppressor who tortures them in prison and puts up checkpoints to prevent them from reaching schools and kills them indiscriminately? Gosh I don't know. What do you think?
Because the current Israeli government hasn't wanted to get rid of Hamas. They've been using Hamas to weaken the more moderate Palestinian Authority. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
This is a difficult socioeconomic problem. The majority of the Palestinians in the Gaza strip are under 18. They've lived a life of nothing but oppression. For the vast majority of people there now, this is the only life they've known. And for the adults, they saw a more conciliatory government not give them the life they want.
So within living memory of the population, Hamas won the popular vote, the Palestinian authority was setting up for coup inside of the Gaza strip, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah%E2%80%93Hamas_conflict
And since that coup attempt, there have been no elections in the Gaza strip.
Even presupposing the majority of the children in Gaza wanted to overthrow Hamas, it's a collective action problem, how many of them are willing to throw their lives away to affect a political change, when they see the real threat as an external one.
Historically, religious fundamentalists thrive in adverse conditions. When the population loses all hope, religion tends to step in, and extreme religion tends to dominate.
Being realistic, the first step to removing Hamas support is giving the population better options. Economic options, education options, religious freedom options. And that's going to require a lot of work that isn't military as the ground work
I think how they’re murdering Palestinian children with blind disregard should tell you their opinion on the palestinian people.
Israel doesn’t care about them, they treat Gaza like a house they wanna move into a Palestinians like an infestation.
You've got real "Why didn't all the colonised countries rise up against their European colonisers" vibes...
Do you believe they didn't rise up because they're genetically inferior? That they deserved suffering and oppression?
Because Hamas is the only organization fighting Israel, or the only one that matters. So given that Israel has no interest in peace, Hamas is their best bet at getting anything done. Remember: The West Bank doesn't have Hamas, and there are currently honest to God pogroms going on there.
Better question, why did Netanyahu fund Hamas?