this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
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Work Reform

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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.

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[–] GraniteM@lemmy.world 5 points 5 hours ago

Suppose that at a given moment a certain number of people are engaged in the manufacture of pins. They make as many pins as the world needs, working (say) eight hours a day. Someone makes an invention by which the same number of men can make twice as many pins as before. But the world does not need twice as many pins: pins are already so cheap that hardly any more will be bought at a lower price. In a sensible world everybody concerned in the manufacture of pins would take to working four hours instead of eight, and everything else would go on as before. But in the actual world this would be thought demoralizing. The men still work eight hours, there are too many pins, some employers go bankrupt, and half the men previously concerned in making pins are thrown out of work. There is, in the end, just as much leisure as on the other plan, but half the men are totally idle while half are still overworked. In this way it is insured that the unavoidable leisure shall cause misery all round instead of being a universal source of happiness. Can anything more insane be imagined?

—Bertrand Russell, In Praise of Idleness, 1935

[–] _stranger_@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Manager: You're right! AI Makes me as productive as half my team, so I'm firing half of them AND working a 4 day work week!

[–] Atropos@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

Manager in two weeks:

Please come back, I can't do all this myself!

[–] lorski@sopuli.xyz 22 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Studies show productivity has a sharp drop off after 6 hours iirc

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 5 points 11 hours ago

Mine starts badly, tails off a little in the middle, and the least said about the end the better, but other than that I always give 100%.

[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 29 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

We should get a 4 day work week anyway even with reduced hours. It is fucking ridiculous people think that it is possible to do anything but the simplest tasks actively for 8 hours without breaks and be productive. People who think that are either stupid or have never spent a single second analyzing what they do in their day. Practically all companies already operate with their employees getting all work done within a few hours and lounging away with tiny bits of looking busy throughout the day. Might as well let them go home and rest so they can have higher motivation, clearer minds and more productivity. It's a win win.

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 11 hours ago
[–] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 18 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Let's make anything over 32 hours double pay.

[–] Mustakrakish@lemmy.world 14 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

4 days is kinda outdated, like how the $15 minimum is so long overdue it's moot. 24 hours. 3 days working vs 4 days living. We deserve to live more than we work.

[–] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 7 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Absolutely agree. They wanna complain about entitlement. They think they're entitled to 3/4 of all of our lives.

[–] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 13 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

We could have done this 150 years ago when oil gave us 100 times more energy back than it took to extract it.

Humans are a defective species, we must see others suffer.

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

To be fair, we kinda did. Don't get me wrong, workers are still heavily exploited now, but we've come a long way since then. At least we have minimum wage and some degree of workers rights now, even if we still have a way to go.

Hopefully this current productivity boom can continue to push us along that path without driving us further into techno dystopia.

[–] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 14 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Nah it’s just that the socio-economic system we’re stuck with that literally incentivizes ghoulish behavior that causes suffering. Change the system, change humanity.

[–] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 3 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I think you may have cause and effect inverted.

[–] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 5 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Well yes, ghouls were the ones who invented capitalism, but before that we had feudalism, which was even more ghoulish - but guess what, we don’t go around drawing and quartering criminals anymore, so it looks like I’m right. Change the system, change humanity.

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[–] RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com 4 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Meanwhile, in Germany: There are a lot of unemployed people, and there are a lot of people who want a four-day week, so what we desperately need is working longer hours.

[–] pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 6 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

?

Oh. I missed the sarcasm. But yes, that is how conclusions work in my country, as well.

[–] RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com 4 points 11 hours ago

Yeah, they just like squeezing out some more. Why should the efficiency gains of the last decades help the people, after all? No, what we really need is richer billionaires.

[–] barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 13 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

If AI is so productive, we should have Unuversal Basic Income, and free college/vocational education for anyone who wants it.

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago

America? Educating their population? For free??

[–] 2ugly2live@lemmy.world 8 points 14 hours ago

No, no, no. They'll just make it so that each of us is expected to do more since AI is "helping" us. Success under capitalism just leads to more work. The number has to keep going up. If they get their arms twisted they may give us a day off, but they will absolutely decrease the pay. My fear is that they would also go, "Oh, well, since you're not working 40 hours a week, even though it's the same work, so no benefits for you 🤷🏿‍♀️."

[–] RatzChatsubo@lemm.ee 5 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

That's cool and all but what about maximum salary hours?

[–] MonkeMischief@lemmy.today 1 points 4 hours ago

Not enough people talk about this.

When I found out how that worked I was like

"Lemme get this straight...they get whatever they want out of you, as long as they want, exempt from overtime, for a flat yearly fee? But of course you get benefits and vacation time you are socially stigmatized from using...Yeah that's a scam."

What's with the obsession with renting/owning people?!?

[–] EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world 32 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

3-day by now. 4-day was due before AI, so why would this great boost not make the difference?

[–] OrteilGenou@lemmy.world 17 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

3-day week, baseline annual salary across the board of $100,000, free health care for all and capital asset tax of 95% over $50 million

Who's with me?

[–] EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world 5 points 16 hours ago

The people.

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[–] winkerjadams@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

But then they couldn't pay 1/2 as many people as they used to while still expecting the same amount of work to get done.

[–] martinb@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 14 hours ago

Oh you sweet summer child. 1/2 as many people for double the amount of work

[–] peteyestee@feddit.org 8 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

It's already cooked Bernie. It's a charred dead carcass.

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[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 17 points 19 hours ago (1 children)
[–] NotProLemmy@lemmy.ml 9 points 17 hours ago (4 children)
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[–] hark@lemmy.world 83 points 1 day ago (23 children)

We should've gotten a 4-day work week decades ago. Now it should be a 3-day work week at most and I'm being generous. The capitalists are always screeching about the low birth rate, but if people were working 3 days a week and making a decent living off that time, it would help the birth rate because then a household with two working parents could be scheduled on different days and alternate staying home with the child, plus have a shared day off every week.

Anyway, that's just a selling point to make to the capitalists. Whether or not it helps with the birth rate doesn't matter as much as the fact that we're owed shorter work weeks thanks to all the blood, sweat, and tears that labor has put into making the world as wealthy as it is now. What's the point of all this work if not to improve our standard of living? Technology making our lives better is hitting diminishing returns and now it's often not making our lives better or it's even making our lives worse.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 1 points 9 hours ago

We should've gotten a 4-day work week decades ago

Then you should have burned down Chicago decades ago.

The 5 day work week didn't just happen because workers deserved it. It happened because they went to war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair

[–] skisnow@lemmy.ca 5 points 15 hours ago

George Jetson's work week was one hour a day, two days a week. That's what we were promised we'd get once everything was automated, not that Spacely Space Sprockets would make us work 60 hours a week and pocket all the extra productivity for themselves.

[–] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 3 points 15 hours ago

We as a species could have built a leisure society decades ago. The raw energy input of fossil fuels could have been wisely parceled out by a council of benevolent dictators, while we live under the domes and chase Jessica 7 on a monorail.

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