this post was submitted on 19 Mar 2023
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Ubuntu Flavors Will Stop Using Flatpak (www.omgubuntu.co.uk)
submitted 2 years ago by winnie@lemmy.ml to c/linux@lemmy.ml
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In a surprise move, Ubuntu developers have agreed to stop shipping Flatpak, preinstalled Flatpak apps, and any plugins needed to install Flatpak apps through a GUI software tool in the default package set across all eight of Ubuntu’s official flavors, as of the upcoming Ubuntu 23.04 release.

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[–] 2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have said and will keep saying this, Snap continues to be one of the worst things Canonical has tried to pass off as "production ready" at least in recent times, and every time they push more for it makes me consider them even more of an untrustworthy distro vendor.

My personal experience with it is that I had to nuke it off the computers I maintain last time we updated Ubuntu to the new release (unfortunately I don't control what OS we're using, otherwise Ubuntu would have been gone faster than you could say "Snap"), because these computers have user homes on a network drive, which isn't under /home, and snap just flat out refuses to work when that is the case.

It wouldn't even be such a problem if they hadn't removed Firefox among other things from their repositories, but as it is right now, there's no way to run Firefox on Ubuntu without mucking around with PPAs if your user home is not under /home. This bug about that has been open for 7 years!

That said, I think this is fine considering Flatpak is still going to be available in the repositories, just not installed by default. I'm much more a fan of "install what you need", anyway. (But then again, that's not the style of distro Ubuntu wants to go for.)

[–] kamin@lemmy.kghorvath.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm okay technically with Snap, and I appreciate that it can do CLI programs as well which Flatpak can't (to my knowledge. My issue with it is that Canonical has dug their feet in on making their store the default and only package source for everyone. It's clear to me that they want to be the gatekeepers of software on Linux.

[–] 2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, it definitely does CLI applications better, I think Oracle uses it for some of their system monitoring services on Oracle Cloud for example. At least the snap issue I linked is also still open unlike the issue for better CLI handling for Flatpak which was closed without being fixed and makes the guy who closed it look like an arrogant asshole.

To be honest I don't really like either of these because they both have big flaws like that, and of the three major "standalone app formats" I prefer AppImage the most simply because I can just download those without needing to install some other daemon first.

[–] soulrx@mastodon.social 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

@2xsaiko Was this in response to my response to someone asking about new distros? New to Mastodon!

Haven't noticed the snaps much, but when I have, it was something weird that made me think it probably wouldn't have happened if I hadn't installed the snap... probably my aversion to learning something new and unrelated. I absolutely hated systemd when it first got pushed by Redhat, but I've come around.

Yeah, not liking the tone of that developer. Maybe needs an LLM-bedside-coprocessor. ;)

[–] 2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago

@soulrx@mastodon.social It's in response to this comment. Looks like Mastodon doesn't really deal well with Lemmy comment threads (and I think I have to explicitly tag you for you to see it?) :P

[–] jcbritobr@mastodon.social 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

@winnie snap is not so mature as flatpaks yet. Dont know if its really a nice descision.

[–] winnie@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 years ago (3 children)

No, it's not nice decision. It's more political decision, to force Ubuntu's own solution instead of alternative.

(I'm wondering if you would be notified for reply in mastodon?)

[–] marmalade@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

Business as usual considering their history of Unity and Mir, so.

[–] anders@rytter.me 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

@winnie @jcbritobr thats usually the case for mastodon when someone replies to your post.

[–] winnie@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah. But Lemmy doesn't add @username to it's replies.

[–] anders@rytter.me 2 points 1 year ago

@winnie
It shouldn't matter. Mastodon users should get notified when you reply to their post even though they aren't tagged in it.

At least that's the case for me on Friendica but I remember the same behaviour from back when I used Mastodon.

[–] PoisonedPrisonPanda@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago

but how is this solution the best business wise?

arent the development and maintenance costs of snap are currently outweighing the income?

how can an own environment be monetized in the open source realm?

[–] PureTryOut@lemmy.kde.social 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wait, how did you view this post via Mastodon? I know both Lemmy and Mastodon use ActivityPub but the UX and urlpatterns are quite different and client-specific. What is the format of the link you used to view this?

[–] Hizeh@hizeh.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I also demand answers. Should I be able to see Mastodon posts via my Lemmy/wefwef?

[–] PureTryOut@lemmy.kde.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I found out in the meantime. You can find communities from Lemmy on Mastodon using the @communityname@server pattern. So @kde@lemmy.kde.social will find this community. On Mastodon it'll appear as a user boosting every post (both top post and comments) and that way you can find individual comments.

It isn't great, the UX is clearly different and not made for each other, but it works and you can favourite or boost individual posts with it.

[–] Hizeh@hizeh.com 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Interesting. I was able to find a few big Lemmy communities on Mastodon. But I couldn't find my tiny instance community.

I wonder what I need to do to get my own instance to federate with Mastodon?

[–] PureTryOut@lemmy.kde.social 1 points 1 year ago

The instance needs to have https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ansible/pull/114 applied, it might not be in the version you are running yet.

[–] torturedllama@lemmy.nz 5 points 1 year ago

This is bizarre. Snap has improved a tiny bit over time, but it continues to not be that great. Meanwhile, flatpak is miles ahead. Things are generally just smoother and less annoying, even when Snap is working as intended.

Personal anecdote: I was having no end of trouble with Inkscape, it was just not working, very unreliable, all sorts of very odd issues. It got worse and worse over time to the point where it didn't even seem to understand paths to open files anymore, if it even felt like opening that day. I tried reinstalling, clearing the config, all sorts of things. I suspected maybe the version of Inkscape Snap was giving me might have a bug in it so I was looking around for alternative ways to install an older version and then for some reason I tried Flatpak. It was like some kind of magic. Totally night and day. All of a sudden Inkscape had absolutely none of the issues that the Snap version had. It just worked. After that I realized that it hadn't been a bug in that version of Inkscape at all, it was just Snap.

I haven't had any issues with any other Snaps, but that incident really opened my eyes to just how bad things can get if a program isn't packaged correctly.

[–] sophia@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Omg why?? It just gets worse.

[–] transientpunk@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

It's because Canonical has a vested interest in pushing the solution that they spent money developing.

Ass much as I appreciate everything that Canonical has done for Linux, this is the problem with trusting for profit companies in the open source realm. Profit is their motivator. They don't care that flatpak has better performance than snap, they just know they spent money developing snap, so they have to force it onto their users, despite it being the inferior tech.

[–] wiki_me@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Flavor leads (apparently) agree

Press X to doubt

Ubuntu asking its flavors to stop using something because it doesn’t is a head scratcher. Flavors regularly use things Ubuntu doesn’t, things you could argue are more intrinsic to an “Ubuntu experience”, like installers, login managers, icon themes etc. Why single out Flatpak?

IMO Canonical wants to make snap like google play, where people sell stuff and they take a 20-30 percent commission

[–] AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The most popular non-Canonical derivatives, Linux Mint and POP OS, have both totally rejected and vocally criticize Canonical's bullshit, Snap or otherwise. This isn't going to make the fall in line, this is going to make them finally get serious about ditching Ununtu and switching directly to the upstream Debian base.

[–] eroc1990@lemmy.parastor.net 1 points 1 year ago

Yup. S76 drew a pretty clear line in the sand when they went all in on Flatpak. I'm glad some derivatives have the backbone to not back Canonical's decision making.

[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

by making it clearer about what an “Ubuntu experience” is.

The user experience will be worse, because they can't use Flatpaks without jumping through extra hoops.

So, I guess, a "Ubuntu experience" is a bad experience. Not going to argue with that.

[–] AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Ubuntu is the stepping stone from Mac/Windows to Linux. Like the tutorial level. It's also one of the most "corporate" Linux OS vendors outside of RedHat. Of course it's shitty lol.