Real fucked how someone can attack the most progressive of the establishment for not being left enough while relentlessly defending someone like Putin or fucking Orbán
this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2025
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One wrong or politically moderate stance is enough to condemn any would-be socdem/demsoc 'ally'; one 'correct' stance or anti-SHITLIB alignment is enough to turn any fascist, imperialist, or theocrat into a comrade beyond criticism.
People who support genocide are scum. It's that simple. (I don't think these three are neoliberals, though.)
Please take Elizabeth Warren (capitalist to my bones/snake) off the progressive list. She was a Republican until the Democrats moved far enough to the right for her to join. Second she helped destroy Sanders Second presidential run, and part of that, besides staying in the primary after she lost her own state. But stayed in for super Tuesday to keep Sanders from getting the votes. She also pulled that hot mic stunt and called Sanders a sexist. She a fucking monster and is no progressive.
I have my own reservations about Warren similar to your's. But:
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I didn't make the meme. I am but a lazy reposter.
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She's been a Dem almost as long as I've been alive, and for her entire political career. Don't really know how much stock I'd put in "She used to be a Republican decades ago before she got into politics."
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Being a progressive and being a slimy opportunist are, unfortunately, not mutually exclusive.
Yes she was a Republican that is easy to verify
I didn't say that she wasn't a Republican, though I see how you could read it that way, I said I don't know how much weight I would put into that fact considering it was considerably before she even entered politics - and as your screenshot notes, she hadn't voted for a GOP presidential candidate for decades before even that.
For some reason people seem to love purity-testing Warren and finding her wanting. Warren made the CFPB happen. Of course, now it’s being dismantled by republicans, but I’d be willing to bet that her work has accomplished more actual progressive goals than anyone in this comment section.
There's a lot of bad blood with Warren over the 2020 primaries for us Bernie supporters. Hell, I'm still not entirely over it, and I try to be charitable with regards to her motivations for her behavior during the primary.
Presidential elections are about as competitive as anything gets.
Bernie’s been over it for years; she’s literally one of his best allies in the senate. I assume if the person on the other end of the fight can get over it, the people who weren’t even there can figure it out too and stop wasting energy attacking the people who want to help us.
I mean, I wish I could be as high-minded as Bernie, but the fact is that I'm just... not. And neither are most people.
Bernie hit the trail hard campaigning for Hillary fucking Clinton even after the shitshow in the 2016 primary because he realized what was at stake. He's a rare soul.
It’s always good to have something to aspire to.
For me, I’ll keep admiring Warren for as long as she keeps beating up banks. I don’t really give a shit about a primary they both lost anymore.
Same. Bernie forgiving her is two fold, he's the bigger man compared to me, and he recognizes the need for some allies, even if you can't fully trust them.
But she's a snake, a liar, a cheat, and I don't trust her not to Tulsi Gabbard us, even if she won't take it to that extreme... But honestly, I couldn't tell you what extreme she would take it to, considering she's proven herself to be checks notes a snake, a liar, and a cheat. Is she better than most of em? No fucking clue. Her results have been better in most cases, but who knows what she'd do if the money or motivation is right.
There's a short story, What We Talk About When We Talk About Anne Frank. It's a good read, but basically it boils down to a group of Jewish friends discussing who would hide each other if the Nazis ever came back into power, and there's an uncomfortable realization when one of them realizes someone they love wouldn't have the spine to hide them if the shit hit the fan. That's how I feel about EW. When the shit hits the fan her progressiveness goes out the window, and it becomes how she can protect her own interests over the literal billions of people on the planet that would benefit from a truly progressive American administration.
Word.
You are absolutely right. Thank you for pointing this out, OP.
If I understand them correctly and they're a tankie then there's nothing wrong about this statement in their eyes, in their view the left side is very right wing conservative and the right side is moderate conservative "liberal" but none are "the left" so to them they're not attacking left wing anything.
Which is part of a broader problem of "Anyone who isn't us isn't a REAL leftist"
Which itself implies that "real leftists" are a rounding error in the population and can never hope to effect the change they seek.
They get around that by claiming, like evangelical Christians seeking converts, that everyone (or every member of the working class, at least) is their kind of leftist deep down in their heart of hearts (except for ~~Satan's minions~~ the GREAT Satan's minions) and the only reason they aren't overwhelmingly in control of society is because of The Word being Kept Down by Evil Forces.
We really need to build a coalition of leftists with, y'know, some sense of political strategy. Maybe an offshoot of TankieJerk.
Online work is (as the gruesome and unfortunate events of 2015/2016 have shown) surprisingly effective at generating enthusiasm, but actual organizing is still most effective on the ground. I mention this seemingly unrelated point because an overinflated sense of how 'real' an online community is can lead to some very ugly circlejerks and denial of reality. And also, the Fediverse is still fucking tiny, lol.
That being said, I'd love to join a comm like that. I couldn't moderate it though - I'm far too volatile a personality for coalition-building. Also I moderate too many comms as it is, lmao.
If one hypothetically were to create such a comm (with the express intent of relinquishing moderation to a more suitable party as soon as possible), which instance do you think is best suited? I've seen your takes, I know you're active, I respect your opinion.
I've been intending to leave Lemmy for Piefed, but I'm not overly familiar with Piefed instances yet.
.world is the boring answer. For all the flak it gets, most of its trouble is that admins don't generally interfere with comm moderation, and thus a significant amount of .world comms have... questionable moderation. In this case, though, that's an advantage. But it's an institutionally robust instance, the largest, permissive for our purposes, and the admins are at least willing to walk back dumbass decisions if there's public outcry.
sh.itjust.works would be the other major option.
dbzer0 is a good instance for most things, but the aggressively anti-electoralist stance of the admins makes it an uncomfortable fit for "Let's make a new coalition in the current political environment."
Most other servers are either small, or have a regional/topical bend to them which may not be desirable.
I've been intending to leave Lemmy for Piefed, but I'm not overly familiar with Piefed instances yet.
I get that. I feel like the least tech-capable person on Lemmy, so I don't really get into the fediverse meta. In any case, doesn't hurt to have a wide presence.
.world is the boring answer.
Yeah.
sh.itjust.works would be the other major option.
I'll admit I'm not really savvy to the intricacies of Lemmy politics, but my username betrays a mild bias. I do enjoy the ethos it implicitly suggests by its name.
dbzer0 is a good instance for most things, but the aggressively anti-electoralist stance of the admins makes it an uncomfortable fit for "Let's make a new coalition in the current political environment."
Tell me about it. Them or slrpnk was my first instinct, and as much as I agree with them on a lot of things, they seem to have been infected with the ideology-uber-alles bug.
Yeah I definitely don't have time to moderate myself either. I made one niche comm and immediately realized I couldn't commit to moderation so did absolutely nothing to promote it.
Still, seems like a productive conversation to be had. I'm sure someone had the inclination and the time.
Online work is (as the gruesome and unfortunate events of 2015/2016 have shown) surprisingly effective at generating enthusiasm, but actual organizing is still most effective on the ground.
Heard that. Still, online work could be a great way to kickstart the groundwork.
They aren't serious political actors with consistent or defensible positions, they are nationalist campists if not outright propagandists.
The only acceptable Western leader to them is one that will cause the most internal chaos and self-destruction while leaving BRICS (mostly China and Russia) alone. Left-right politics has little to do with it. They don't want us to coalesce into progressive countries, they want us to collapse and suffer.
If you mean "Progressive" like EU or Nordic countries, in which life is better for it's own citizens at the cost of continuing to exploit poorer nations then yeah I get their point.
If you mean “Progressive” like EU or Nordic countries, in which life is better for it’s own citizens at the cost of continuing to exploit poorer nations then yeah I get their point.
Jesus fucking Christ.
"let's build socialism for us on top of the backs of everyone else!"
The only acceptable western leader to me is one who leaves BRICS alone. Partly because I live in it, and partly because it now contains the majority of the world. Also at least don't enable literal genocide. I definitely don't want them to cause internal chaos wherever they leave, but destroying the World Bsnk / IMF and other instruments of neocolonialism would be nice.
I can't remember where i heard it.
"we don't elect our leaders, we elect our opposition"
IE, we elect the best candidate we have (within limits), and assume they'll shill/compromise/be bribed... no elected official is beyond criticism.
this isn't sports, is the management of the state we live in.
Lmao you really put Elizabeth Warren in there
One of very few Democrats actually voting against arms supply to Israel. It’s unfortunate that that’s a high bar now.
I mean she has issues but at least the consumer financial protection bureau did some good. I get why she's there and even if you don't like her it's easy to understand that she was vocally progressive for the last couple of elections even though she used to be an r