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submitted 10 months ago by Custoslibera@lemmy.world to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[-] GlitterInfection@lemmy.world 75 points 10 months ago

Dismissing good advice because the person who gave it to you has flaws is the epitome of logical behavior!

[-] araozu@lemm.ee 5 points 10 months ago

Let's assume I didn't know about vaccines and I went to ask for advice to someone. How would I know if what they told me was good advice?

I would ask myself, are they an authority on the subject? Where do they draw the advice from? Who says they are an authority? What did they have to do to earn that authority? Do other authorities say the same?

Are mormons authorities on logic? Why trust advice about logic from someone that doesn't follow logic?

A liar can say that lying is bad. A killer can say that killing is bad. It just so happens that the advice is good, in spite of who said it.

[-] GlitterInfection@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

You ended up agreeing with me in that last sentence.

Disregarding advice you know is good already because you don't respect the source is an emotional, not logical, choice.

[-] araozu@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

Yes, it's emotional to disregard advice you know is good. However it is a logical reaction to have.

It is logical for humans not to trust or accept advice from a hypocrite, even if that advice may be good. It's not about the advice itself, but about who gives it. That was my point.

Unfortunately humans have emotions, and those emotions factor into our so called "logical decisions". To ignore our emotions is to pretend we are machines, and machines wouldn't be in these situations, as a machine wouldn't give advice it doesn't follow itself.

Now, if we were machines, sure, if the advice is good, it's good, doesn't matter who gives it.

Furthermore, if I already know the advice is good, did I receive advice?

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[-] idiomaddict@feddit.de 32 points 10 months ago

I think it’s pretty logical to outwardly seem like a Mormon in Utah, so I guess it depends.

[-] ivanafterall@kbin.social 17 points 10 months ago

As someone who has worked with and for Mormons, it's a special kind of hell. Usually some flavor of narcissist stunted at a middle-school level of inward development.

[-] 1847953620@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

The gaslighting-with-the-biggest-smile-and-softest-words is too fucking real. It actually boggles me when I see how others fall for it

[-] ivanafterall@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago

Spot on. I'm currently trying to get out of Utah, so it's all too painfully real.

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[-] crmsnbleyd@sopuli.xyz 17 points 10 months ago

Actually, mormons think they are very logical. I've seen many instances of people talking about how Brandon Sanderson being Mormon is why he's so thorough at world building.

[-] Custoslibera@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

Does he write his world building on golden plates?

Perhaps he dictates his stories using a seer stone while staring into a hat?

[-] BrandoGil@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The flaw of the meme isn't that it's picking on religion, the flaw of it is that it assumes illogical views negate logical views. Believing that angels hid golden plates in New England doesn't negate good looks at a P&L in the same way that a Christian working at NASA that believes a dude rose from the dead doesn't negate good math to get a satellite into space. In the same way that me being agnostic doesn't mean I'm always logical and rational in every situation.

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[-] lesnout27@feddit.de 12 points 10 months ago

dum dum dum dum dum

[-] YoFrodo@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

It's like fat people telling you to eat healthy. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean it's bad advice

[-] Klear@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Reminds me of the rabbi whose congregation complained about his many vices, saying that he's supposed to be better, he's supposed to show them the way. So he brought them to the edge of the town and showed them a direction sign.

"Does it show you the way? It does. And do you want it to go anywhere?"

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[-] m0darn@lemmy.ca 14 points 10 months ago

A slightly different hot take:

Professing to be a mormon is a logical decision if your culture is mormon.

Disinterest in pursuing a more empirical world view is not illogical if one would have to damage their relationship with those closest to them in its pursuit.

(Sorry about the pretentiousness of that (and this) sentence, I can't find a more vernacular way of expressing these ideas succinctly).

[-] araozu@lemm.ee 6 points 10 months ago

What you said (and such defenses of religion) makes me think: If I see someone ready to jump off a bridge, and I can stop them against their will, should I? I mean, inside their brain they are ending their suffering. They don't see value in life. But I do. Whose worldview is more important?

What if it was drugs, should I stop them? What if it was drinking every weekend? What if it was refusing to go outside without a mask in the middle of a pandemic?

What if it was following the cult of their parents, which encourages abuse & discrimination of women, opression of minorities, supression & regression of scientific advances and further indoctrination of future generations? If I have the power to get someone out of their cult against their will, should I?

Or what if it was continuing to feed a system that brainwashes people into thinking that monetary gain is what's important in life, that the system is infallible, and no alternatives exist?

Should we act against what we perceive as wrong, even if it's against the will of other persons? Where do we draw the line? Who decides what is right and what is wrong?

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[-] bizarrocullen@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

Wait till you hear about Jehova's witnesses.

[-] HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago

Not that this is a competition, but both score about equally high on the BITE model for identifying cults.

[-] Custoslibera@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Blood transfusions and birthday celebrations are the work of the devil?

Say it isn’t so!

[-] UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca 4 points 10 months ago

Fun fact: "blood transfusions"-less techniques are useful to develop in case of blood shortage among other reasons. So Jehovah witness's stubbornness at least have some benefits for medecine. Sucks that it also kills some of them though.

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[-] Buttons@programming.dev 6 points 10 months ago

Boss says "make logical decisions". Insights like this are why they pay him the big bucks. Not just anybody can come up with such insights. (/s)

[-] Underwaterbob@lemm.ee 5 points 10 months ago

Well, do they believe the crazy bullshit, or are they just an opportunist looking to make connections? Church is lucrative.

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[-] fluckx@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

My favorite saying is:

Not my monkey, not my circus

Edit: flipped my saying around by accident. I guess I do need more sleep

[-] WaltJRimmer@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

Most people don't actually know what logic is. I would ask him to define logic to see where he's coming from. Because most people either don't have a definition or if they do it's different than the one the person they're talking to has. But to do that, you'll also want a definition you could explain to someone else going into asking the question.

[-] Lord_ToRA@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

I'll take a swing at it. I'm curious how I'll do if I just wing it.

Logic is a set of rules that can be used to form repeatable results based on given information. It's often built using one's own knowledge and experience. Logic does not require producing accurate results. Flawed logic is still logic. Logic also does not guarantee that the results are the desired results, this is sometimes described as "garbage in, garbage out".

Is that satisfactory?

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[-] Knightfox@lemmy.one 3 points 10 months ago

But Is he a good boss and is he a good person?

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this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023
754 points (91.1% liked)

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