Asklemmy

Not a fan of any of the idealistic instances and beehaw is not an exception. If there was some good communities then someone is just going to recreate those on a different instance.

Never really tapped into beehaw because i am on lemmy.world, but seeing people from other instances say that you had some good content, i'd say stay and refederate with lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works.

Is there a reason we're asking on Lemmy.ml though?

I would be bummed. I go on the tech and science communities pretty often.

I suggest you ask on a different less drama-y instance, in addition to this post.

I have little experience with them. Due to them defederated from lemmy.world. But it still will suck if Beehaw left the Fediverse. Because it's one less place to go to on the Fediverse.

I enjoy some of the threads from Beehaw that show up in my feed, and the ~5 of us on this instance participate there regularly. We like it.

However if you defederated us or switched off Lemmy, we wouldn’t follow. You are a valued part of the greater Lemmy soup but no one instance defines it.

I mean if you want to know how it would effect me it wouldn't. Posts from beehaw don't even come up, flooded out by more active communities, unless I go directly to the beehaw comms. I functionally use it as a seperate website anyways now, if I ever feel like checking it.

I don't really understand your overall goal talk tho. You want to be nice in an intentionally vague way, but you feel like federation is somehow limiting you from achieving this vague state of niceness... Is it just moderation difficulties (not to downplay them) or is something else about leaving the fediverse door open problematic to being nice?

To be blunt the solution to your problems seems to me the same as every single other time beehaw federation is talked about: the community you want to achieve will require many more moderators than a typical community of equivalent size, they will need specialized mod tools, they will need to be high quality skilled highly vetted mods, and you will need exponentially more of them the more users appear on beehaw. Federation doesn't directly stop you from doing any of that, but it does lead to faster growth, which leads to too much work if you aren't constantly adding moderators to match growth.

You should be asking yourself how big you want beehaw to be, and how big of a beehaw you think can be achieved at all.

Sorry I didn't mean to be this rambly when I started writing ignore it if you want

It would be a big loss for the fediverse, but if that's what OG Beehaw users want, I don't necessarily feel like we should have a say

I'd be sad, there are many great communities and contributors there, and I'd hate to see it go away :(

Maybe some limited federation with instances you consider responsive enough when an issue arise?

With your abuse of defederation and the unability to create our own communities I don't care that you leave. Although lemmy.world abuse it too, at least there is a ton of communities that I could join

I would tell them "don't let the door hit you in the way out."

Please don't leave Fediverse. I am not a beehaw user but do want to interact with beehaw and I think the only way to do it is by fediverse.

Beehaw is my favourite instance, if it left I would stay with it but and also use a different instance to use Lemmy.

I would worry that Beehaw couldn't sustain itself outside of federation though, it needs to be either bigger or fill more of a niche and it doesn't do either. I would give it some time to grow more first if it were up to me.

Personally I feel like I use my beehaw mostly to interact with federation, but in part because scrolling through local I run out of posts. Sometimes I'm conversational, sometimes I'm not and just want content.

I do like that Beehaw is somewhat walled off though. My experience being on Kbin and Beehaw has been great with lots of poignant conversations. I recently created a slrpnk.net after some of these talks made me want to have a backup made just in case, plus it's nice to see a different side of the fediverse.

Well, it's federated with lemmy.world and I have found that 9/10 comments are bad takes, basic/shortsighted, and aren't really responsive to actual discussion. Every once in a while there's someone who speaks out against the absurdity but it feels so few in far between. I actually find it difficult to read through comments because it is disheartening to read people even of this sort of community defending corporate actions and completely ignoring any discussion about it. I'm not even talking about "this isn't my opinion and I don't want to read it" - I love discussion it's why I'm here.

In part it's why I'm against the threads federation if only because the flood of content seems so much more meaningless. I like that when I am looking through Microblogs on KBin (I think it's the right name - the ability to see mastodon posts) it's people and their hobbies and conversational questions - or just art with various themes. From what I've been promoted about Threads on Instagram it's not like that at all. I know it's less of an issue for lemmy but is it not the principle?

All this to say - if I don't have to do anything on my end, I'll likely continue using it as it is and it realistically won't affect me too much outside of scope as I use multiple fediverse accounts already anyway. If it comes to be that I migrate or recreate an account I'll probably stick around but I do definitely interact primarily with federation first I think.

I'd be sad to see you leave, since you have great content. I'm curious what the downsides are and if they can be resolved without leaving the fediverse.

I'm not sure what baehaw is. I don't really)l care? So it if you want to or don't.

I would not like it.

I understand the issues for the people running Beehaw and they are totally real and understandable. That being said you have to appreciate that Beehaw is setting an example as one of the most popular instances on the Fediverse. What y'all are doing is not just limited to what you directly control but is also influencing this new and developing sphere that is the Fediverse. I understand that some people are resentful of how Beehaw enforces the rules of its own community, and I understand how a barrage of that can be extremely demotivating and tiresome. I have also heard about the absolutely despicable content that some mods have had to deal with which is extremely traumatizing which ideally shouldn't have to be experienced by anyone. I would understand anyone who would want to never have to deal with that again since that would probably be my reaction.

In terms of ideas, I really appreciate that Beehaw is making a firm stand in the interest of free expression without being bogged down by prejudice and economic interests. The success of Beehaw compared to other instances demonstrates that the project y'all are working on is desired not only by Beehaw denizens such as myself but also those from general instances. This is despite what I assume is a barrage of negativity, complaints, trolling, and legitimately criminal behavior by those who do not support the kind of place which Beehaw is. I know it's a big and unfair ask to want you guys to continue experiencing the things that cause you to want to make you abandon the fediverse, and honestly I wouldn't blame you if you do, but it is very clear to me that the existence of Beehaw as it is is a huge draw to the fediverse and is establishing norms which can't be accommodated outside of what we have here. Reddit sure as hell can't offer what I've been experiencing on the fediverse, and I think that Beehaw is a huge reason for why that is.

I’d make an account on a different server.

I follow two beehaw communities and they are both duplicates on other servers but with slightly different content.. I wouldn't even notice.

People say that the point of activity pub is federation but to me that also means voluntary federation. The possibility of federation. What I dream for it is an option to opt-in instead of opt-out. You should be able to pick "opt-out" if you want a big, connected place. You can have your cake and eat it too by also keeping an account in a big instance of your choice. Most apps let you switch accounts with a tap or two.

We don't all want to be thrown into the world all the time; complete federation just makes it a safe space for majority populations and marginalizes minorities by default. No, I'm not saying you're all evil and exclude people on purpose, it just happens. It happens to me too.

Some of you seem to think that marginalized people are too soft and want a safe space, but you fail to notice that largely, you also have a safe space for yourself, it's just that you probably belong to the default in many areas (I am sighted and most of the internet is made for sighted people).

I grew up in a small forum; people should be able to choose to keep things small, and open in a controlled way. Because that's the beauty of activity pub, you can still federate with others!

I understand the very practical problem of lack of moderation tools and to me that's pretty much the only reason to leave, for now. Maybe come back if it gets better?

the only thing of substance are links to your websites and discord

Ah okay so this is what this is about. Very creative way to peddle your shit.

I always got death-cult vibes from beehaw. I expected their flame-out to be a lot more dramatig than this, though.

Well my small instance is still federated, but the other NZ instance defederated after an 'issue'

I think in the last 2 or so months, the interaction between Beehaw and the main (other) lemmy instances has been less abrasive than it was during the big exodus.

I feel that you leaving now may limit the further growth of the fediverse, but if it is the right thing to do for your users than that is up to you and your users

I don't know beehaw, and in general have a pretty bad image of it. Like a bunch of people who want to play together and don't want to federate with anyone, and when you do you it's to troll. So indeed, you're already mostly out of the fediverse.

No idea which kind of content we'd be missing, but beside the Drama about Some instance is leaving the fediverse it won't change anything for most of us.

yea just keep moving around until you don't have users anymore

I already can't see beehaw users, maybe when you finally defederate from everyone some will rejoin the fediverse proper.

Don't care, do whatever you like.

I like some communities that beehaw hosts such as music.
Other than that: The more the merrier?

Let me start by saying that if Beehaw would be missed for all of us, but I doubt people would move with it if it left ActivePub. That being said I’d recommend sticking with Lemmy, sure it doesn’t have all the features yet — but it’s still young (and is still growing).

I already have another account I only use on beehaw, so I wouldn't mind a compkete defederation or software change. Safer/nicer spaces are really hard to maintain without moderation control, and lemmy clearly isn't there yet and might not be there for some time. If staying federated/on lemmy means beehaw administration/moderation ends up burnt out, I feel like it's the right move to move.

As a personnal aside, the only thing that would prevent me from staying on beehaw is if you chose a closed-source platform (eg discord).

Anyway, thanks for the things you do and the way you do them !

The fediverse defederates servers as a means of limiting the influence and reach of their content and users. This just sounds like admins contemplating self inflicted injury.

I don't think lemm.ee is federating correctly, but I'll give my take here if some one can sees it.

Beehaw will go the way of every other reddit alternatives, because the existing community is not enough to sustain the critical mass of activity needed. In fact, with the current instance policy, Beehaw is struggling to sustain itself as is with federation, which will only get worse if you defederate.

I'm not sure why Beehaw refuse to use Lemmy's white-list federation feature and selectively pick and choose who to federate with instead of going full scorched earth.

It's ultimately up to the admins at Beehaw to make this choice, but I would like to say, grass is not always greener on the other side, defederation will harm Beehaw more than it helps.

Sucks that you're getting shit for this. You do you, and you'll do good whatever you decide because this is the whole point of it all - freedom to choose.