this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2024
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theory

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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by Vampire@hexbear.net to c/theory@hexbear.net
 

Format

  • Reading Volumes 1, 2, and 3 in one year. This will repeat yearly until communism is achieved. (Volume IV, often published under the title Theories of Surplus Value, will not be included, but comrades are welcome to set up other bookclubs.) This works out to about 6½ pages a day for a year, 46 pages a week.

  • I'll post the readings at the start of each week and @mention anybody interested. Discuss the week's reading in the comments.

  • Use any translation/edition you like.

Resources

(These are not expected reading, these are here to help you if you so choose)

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[–] quarrk@hexbear.net 8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

At risk of spamming this thread (I have work tomorrow so getting my thoughts out now) I wanted to pose a starter question just to get some discussion flowing.

What are use-value and exchange-value? Why does Marx highlight these two things and their relationship in the first chapter?

[–] poopoobanana@hexbear.net 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Use-value is the value of an object in the eyes of the consumer, the actual value that it provides when it is used. The use-value of an apple -> it nurtures your body.

Exchange-value is the quantifiable value of an object in an exchange. How does the value apple measure against an orange? The exchange-value of an apple -> the number of socially necessary labor time to produce it (according to the labor theory of value).

[–] quarrk@hexbear.net 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Nice. So use-value relates to use, and exchange-value relates to exchange. That's a good starting point, but still seems a bit murky ... both definitions refer to "value" but in seemingly different meaning... can you explain that difference in meaning?

I think these two paragraphs give an initial description of the two, although Marx indicates it is incomplete:

Use-value vs. exchange-value

The utility of a thing makes it a use value. But this utility is not a thing of air. Being limited by the physical properties of the commodity, it has no existence apart from that commodity. A commodity, such as iron, corn, or a diamond, is therefore, so far as it is a material thing, a use value, something useful. This property of a commodity is independent of the amount of labour required to appropriate its useful qualities. When treating of use value, we always assume to be dealing with definite quantities, such as dozens of watches, yards of linen, or tons of iron. The use values of commodities furnish the material for a special study, that of the commercial knowledge of commodities. Use values become a reality only by use or consumption: they also constitute the substance of all wealth, whatever may be the social form of that wealth. In the form of society we are about to consider, they are, in addition, the material depositories of exchange value.

Exchange value, at first sight, presents itself as a quantitative relation, as the proportion in which values in use of one sort are exchanged for those of another sort, a relation constantly changing with time and place. Hence exchange value appears to be something accidental and purely relative, and consequently an intrinsic value, i.e., an exchange value that is inseparably connected with, inherent in commodities, seems a contradiction in terms. Let us consider the matter a little more closely.

Two things that jump out at me:

  1. Marx oscillates between use-value being something commodities are and something commodities have as a property (being versus having). So depending on context, a commodity is a use-value, or it has use-value.
  2. Exchange-value is a relation between commodities, so unlike use-value, we are no longer talking about a single commodity in isolation.
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[–] Sasuke@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

trying to answer with only my copy of capital in front of me (disclaimer: i might be completely and embarassingly wrong here)

use-value is something that fulfills a specific need (wool having a use-value in the production of yarn). it does not have to be a product of human labour, or be turned into a commodity, but it does need to have some sort of utility

exchange value is independent of utility. yarn here does not contain value by being tied to a specific type of labour (i.e. weaving), it only gains value from the general expenditure of labour-power, and by its social relation to other commodities

[–] quarrk@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

This is really good.

In defining exchange value, you point to the way that commodities gain value but I think it could be a little more exact. Apologies in advance for emoji use but I find it easier to follow visually.

Exchange-value is a relation between two commodities, e.g. “2 🍎 = 1 🍌”. That entire equation is an exchange value. This equation implies two things:

  1. Quantitative equivalence. There is a thing or “substance” that is common to both 🍎 and 🍌, and the amount of this substance in 1 🍌 is equal to the amount of the substance in 2 🍎
  2. Qualitative equivalence. That substance is qualitatively identical in both 🍎 and 🍌. This is required so that the quantity can be compared, like converting lengths to be in centimeters before they can be summed up.

That third thing, the common substance is value. Value is the thing being expressed in an exchange value.

As an analogy, instead of exchange value and value, think about weight and mass. Mass is the substance of an object which is expressed through its weight. When you put two objects on a scale, you abstract from the qualitative difference of the things and consider them only as masses.

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[–] ChaosMaterialist@hexbear.net 8 points 10 months ago

I have notes for each chapter when I went through volume 1 a few years ago. Now I have an excuse to do the other two volumes.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 7 points 10 months ago

Aight I'm due a re-read. Sign me up.

[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I'll do the Soviet version of Theories of Surplus Value, not the Karl Kautsky version.

[–] Vampire@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Do you have a link to that?

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[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago

But of course, this is finally after I get through Das Kapital.

[–] bubbalu@hexbear.net 6 points 10 months ago

Please add me to the at! I kept reading the first two chapters over and over every two months last year.

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Capital has always been the one bit of theory I've struggled with reading the most. I've been neglecting my reading in general lately anyway, sign me up!

It's also a bit of theory I've never really discussed with comrades before, so I like the idea of actually getting to do that.

[–] squirrel@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago

📖🐿️

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