this post was submitted on 01 Mar 2024
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I‘m a little shocked rn. I am using fluffychat on ios since my legacy iphone is still working and I dont want to throw it out until its done.

But this happened the first time: I wrote „then I might need to take a taxi“ to someone and an installed taxi app immediately popped up via notifications saying „get off 25% today“ or something.

This freaks me out big time since it could mean every word I write on this phone gets checked by something/someone.

Anyone else? (It was literally the second I wrote the sentence)

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[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 72 points 8 months ago (7 children)

Apple does not sell your data to a taxi app. Apple does not transmit your keystrokes.

FluffyChat, according to their privacy page, uses FireBase for Push notifications. If the message content is transmitted through them, and the taxi app uses firebase too, they could—theoretically—associate your data with both accounts and push you ads for another service on behalf of the taxi app.

It’s probably just a coincidence… and I’d be alarmed too, but I’d start blaming other companies before Apple, as they tend to horde your data for their own use, not sell it. Apple hates sharing.

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[–] TenderfootGungi@lemmy.world 30 points 8 months ago (3 children)

If you are using a third party keyboard, the company that makes it can see every keystroke. It is why Apple did not allow them for a long time.

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[–] willya@lemmyf.uk 25 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Are you sure you didn’t have a boomer moment and accidentally spotlight search the taxi app?

[–] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 1 points 8 months ago

That would be my first but not impossible I guess. I rechecked. Nope, I wrote a message and this popped up. None of these for days before and now hours after despite heavy use of the phone.

[–] Starbuck@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Do you have location tracking turned on? I feel like a few times when people looked into this, it came down to the Taxi app having location sharing on (so the app can show you fairs, of course) and that the fact that you wrote something about needing a taxi is irrelevant because the app knows you are someplace where you might need a taxi.

And maybe someone nearby you who also had the same Taxi app had just booked a trip. They can correlate your location and people around you.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

“I might need a blowjob”

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 1 points 8 months ago

"Click here to talk to hot singles in your area!"

[–] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 1 points 8 months ago

I checked. No. It only has location when the app is in use (which it hasnt been for months), to add to this, I was at home at the time and not on the move. I have however been on the move a couple days before (which the app cant see without location) and nothing happened.

[–] PeroBasta@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Had similar experiences. Check my post history. I got shit on by the apple community tho.

[–] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I‘m not seeing any posts that suggest you were in a similar situation. Feel free to send a link to the post.

[–] doctorzeromd@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I think they're referring to this https://lemmy.world/post/9384633

Though from my reading of it it seems like they got a pretty clear explanation on the top post about what was going on, it doesn't sound like OP's situation.

I'm very anti-apple, but PeroBasta's post doesn't seem like apple is doing anything weird.

[–] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 1 points 8 months ago

Thats why I didnt see it. The post for some reason didnt show on my instance and then got loaded in between. Lemmy and federation… anyway, I also recognized this recently and my wife actually changed a setting while I was driving and since it disappeared.

[–] GammaGames@beehaw.org 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Try asking someone for money 😱

[–] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 1 points 8 months ago

Are you saying this happened to your or someone you know?

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 1 points 8 months ago (7 children)

No. If someone is telling you that Apple is doing that, they are lying to you. Demand proof, because no one can provide that. Because Apple is not doing that, and if they’re telling you they are, they are lying.

[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 5 points 8 months ago

From an article about a recent lawsuit

The App Store appeared to harvest information about every single thing you did in real time, including what you tapped on, which apps you search for, what ads you saw, and how long you looked at a given app and how you found it. The app sent details about you and your device as well, including ID numbers, what kind of phone you’re using, your screen resolution, your keyboard languages, how you’re connected to the internet—notably, the kind of information commonly used for device fingerprinting.

Notably, knowing keyboard language and monitoring tap locations allows for reconstruction of text the user types (as detailed in this article

I do think you are correct that Apple probably isn't actively keylogging every iOS device (just because there's easier ways with less legal concerns that ultimately get the same outcomes), but it's not like there's "no evidence".

[–] thepreciousboar@lemm.ee 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If you demand proof to state they do, you should provide proof when stating they don't. It's not like Apple is the most trustworthy company in the world. With big tech it's always reasonable (definitely not certain) to assume they could be spying on your activity, and unless you are able to download your software source code, check it and compile it yourself, it's almost impossible to tell.

[–] Juno@beehaw.org 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That's a burden of proof fallacy. 😕

It's no one's job to prove the opposite. The burden is on the initial claim.

[–] TheEntity@kbin.social 1 points 8 months ago

The only thing we know without a proof is that they might be doing it. We don't have a proof they do it but we also don't have any proof they are incapable of doing so. A reasonable course of action would be to take precautions against it while not condemning them either, until they are either proven actually guilty or actively unwilling to up their security, which would also strongly imply the former.

[–] JohnnyCanuck@lemmy.ca -1 points 8 months ago
[–] TheEntity@kbin.social -1 points 8 months ago

Until it's proven the data is E2E encrypted, it's a fair assumption it can be read by a 3rd party, either now or in the future. E2EE is the only proof that matters, everything else is just a corporate "trust me bro".

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[–] weeeeum@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Yes, of course haha. Apple is as much of a data company as Google or Facebook, but they pretend to be privacy centric. Their "privacy" reputation comes from preventing apps from tracking your and limiting their data collection.

This isn't for the good of the consumer, it simply gives apple a monopoly on data of their customers, that they can sell for a pretty penny.

If you want a truly privacy focused iPhone you likely have to jailbreak it. Either that or get an android phone and install graphene OS or other privacy centric off shoots of android OS.

Remember, if a company owns the operating system, you're being tracked. Happens just as much on windows and Mac. They'll even track what you say, and give you recommendations based on that.

[–] TenderfootGungi@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

This is mostly not true. They are extremely privacy focused. The do keep some data on you but it is anonymized and not sold. For example, the maps app will keep the route, but randomly chops both ends off so there is not an exact start and stop. Siri sucks because it runs on devise instead of a server somewhere like all the rest. And they sell adds based on keywords in the App Store. But they do not collect and sell your data like the rest.

A big fear is a future new leadership team changing these policies for a quick cash grab. We need data privacy laws.

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] SuckMyWang@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

Isn’t it a bit like how I ate a sandwich today? I know I ate a sandwich but there’s no proof of it. I am still allowed to talk about eating a sandwich even though there’s no proof. Did I mention how I ate a sandwich today?

Also this is a bad example because I’m actually lying about the sandwich. I never ate a sandwich. But you get the point.

[–] thrawn@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Not really. You’re making an allegation with no evidence, then incorrectly comparing it to you proving something you yourself may have done. That wouldn’t work if you were merely claiming someone else ate a sandwich, much less something like this.

An exercise— some taxi company made the app with publicly available software. A lot of Lemmy users seem to be developers and know how the notification system works for iOS. Is it then:

  • Apple tracks all sentences typed and lets every single app know when something related to its purpose is typed so a notification can be served? And every single app developer in existence has hidden this knowledge?

  • Apple tracks all sentences typed and lets specific apps know when something related to its purpose is typed? Why would they give this data to a taxi company and not larger companies that drive more profit? If they did give it to taxi companies and up, how do they prevent whistleblowers? Privacy intrusion on this level would be massive. People will leak military secrets to prove a point in video games, but not this?

  • Apple tracks all sentences typed and only lets this taxi company know when “I need a taxi” is typed? This would be safest because it reduces the chance of a leak. And yet also tremendously risky to give this data to a taxi company, which probably isn’t overly secure, when this information leaking would cost them shareholder-angering amounts of money and poor press.

This conspiracy is moon-landing-is-fake levels of implausible. It would require airtight security and a level of secret keeping that humans are simply not capable of. No disgruntled employee of any company would have leaked this? Apple would risk meteoric reputation damage to slightly drive in app purchases that they’d then get a 30% cut of? Be serious.

I hate defending any corporation but the flat earth level conspiracies I see upvoted on Lemmy— with zero proof, or even waving away the thought of proof!— would be laughed at anywhere else. These takes also delegitimize real criticism because there may yet be something relatively implausible that they are doing, and noise like this muddies the water. Why not discuss the actual unethical things Apple does, of which there are many, instead of making stuff up?

Edit: oops, you did not make the allegation, merely defended it. I’d split this up into two separate criticisms for maximum effectiveness (the other one for the confidently-said zero-proof conspiracy, and this one for the implication that evidence for conspiracies is unnecessary) but no one’s gonna read it anyway so whatever.

[–] panicnow@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] thrawn@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Well shit, thanks. I used to do this (being long comments) on Reddit but long comments naturally filter out some readers. Which I get, cause sometimes I’m not looking to read a whole thing too, so it never offended me.

People on Lemmy seem to have longer attention spans though, shouldn’t be too surprised. This site has me returning to older habits of thinking through comments and spending almost 20 minutes typing haha, back on the other site I just stopped commenting in the years before the API changes since I’ve never been the type for quippy one liners. So yeah weirdly thanks, odd how it kind of feels nice to have these read again. I obv can’t text monologue irl (cause it’s not text) and I’m one for brevity with text messages

[–] SecretPancake@feddit.de 3 points 8 months ago

Your example should be someone else claims that you ate a sandwich but you did not. Even if you keep saying you hate sandwiches and no one ever saw you do it. But everyone else eats sandwiches, so how could you not.

[–] Helix@feddit.de 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

you didn't eat any sandwiches, liar. 🙃

[–] haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com -1 points 8 months ago

As funny as this is to you, many are working on getting these corpos to back down. I already handed in a privacy complaint this month against apple which is currently being pursued by the State Office for Data Protection Supervision (a machine translated this).

If this is actually something we can prove somehow, we‘re probably putting a new record for class action lawsuits in the guinness book.

[–] moreeni@lemm.ee 0 points 8 months ago

Always has been.

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