this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2024
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-16
Solarpunk sounds likely doomsday prepper shit (beehaw.org)
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml
39 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I don't know where else to put this. I'm sorry if it's in the wrong place and will move it if it's not appropriate here.

Every time I read anything from so-called solarpunks, it reads like slightly left of centre ravings of doomsday preppers. They seem to love many of the same fascist talking points. For example, individualism self-sufficiency , which sounds a lot like the frontier cowboy fantasies of right-wing nutters. They promote what essentially is subsistence farming, which is a terrible way to live. There's a reason this kind of shit leads to famine in developing countries. An almost enthusiastic fantasy surrounding primitism and the loss of technology. There are so many issues, I could go on. Unless I'm missing something (possible) I don't see much appealing about solarpunk because it seems to have a delusional nostalgia for the "good old days", much in the way conservativism does.

Is it really as crackpot as it sounds? If not, what am I missing?

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[โ€“] Nemo@midwest.social 50 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Solarpunk is still very communitarian with a healthy dash of anarchism. The focus is on sustainability and using technology to support both human and ecological flourishing rather than that of metahuman entities like businesses, states, or organizations.

What you see as "doomsday pepper shit" and "subsistence farming" is radical anticonsumerism. People wanting to support themselves and each other rather than make money and buy products.

Solarpunks aren't luddites or antisocial, quite the opposite. That's what you see to be missing.

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Ok but you do see the problem with subsistence farming, no? Because at the end of the day, that's what it is. If there is no movement of food to where it's needed, and communities are insular, one bad harvest and people starve to death. You say you aren't anti-technology, but what I'm seeing is anti-tech.

[โ€“] Nemo@midwest.social 26 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yes, I see the problem with subsistence farming. Again, that's not the goal. Tech-assisted, ecologically sustainable farming is.

Green cities, too, of course, but your objections seems to stem from misidentifing solarpunk as being about being some kind of off-grid individualists living off the land, which it is just not.

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yes, I'm picking up that "rugged individualist" energy. I did admit, I could be wrong. I guess I'm just looking for some sort of assurance that isn't the case.

[โ€“] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm not entirely sold on the whole solarpunk thing, either, but I got more of an "increase your self-sufficiency, reduce your gratuitous consumption" vibe. Solar panels, high-efficiency lighting/energy usage, self-hosted computing, low-power computing. These kinds of things can add resiliency, not reduce it, especially if you live in a place with unreliable regional services such as statewide blackout/brownouts.

[โ€“] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 1 points 5 months ago

And there are communal aspects as well. I've seen tool libraries brought up, where a community can get access to a higher quality set of tools than they would as individuals. There are other discussions on defining third places that aren't driven by commercial interests.

[โ€“] jet@hackertalks.com 17 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I think the main thing you're missing is when people are self-reliant, you don't hear about them.

Getting ready for a future of renewable energy, making society more sustainable, why are these things you resist?

[โ€“] jet@hackertalks.com 7 points 5 months ago

If it's just the naming you have issues with, countries talk about this all the time in terms of critical energy independence, that's solar punk at the nation state level

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Because what I see is knee-jerk reaction to tech and as you said, "self-reliance"which sounds like a cross between American exceptionalist frontier nonsense mixed with feudalism. It also parallels the anti-globalist wingnut paranoia. If that is supposed to be sustainability, no thanks. And no, I'm not an anarchist, I'm a socialist. Your ideals don't have a monopoly on a more sustainable future. It's like libertarians saying, "why do you hate freedom".

[โ€“] jet@hackertalks.com 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You're really negative.

I didn't say they were my ideas, but you've ascribed them to me and insulted me in the same sentence.

Whatever better socialist future you're envisioning, that's great, let's work towards a better future for everybody

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I'm not negative, I'm skeptical. Also, where did I insult you?

[โ€“] jet@hackertalks.com 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Wingnut paranoia

Your ideas don't have a monopoly on a more sustainable future

So you're saying they're my ideas, and that their wing nut paranoid ideas. That's an insult and an attribution

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That wasn't my intention and the quote is out of context (you left out "sounds like") but if you want to be insulted, that's your perogative .

[โ€“] jet@hackertalks.com 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I think a reasonable interpretation of your previous comment, was that it was intended to be insulting, and combative. Perhaps I am mistaken, and I'm willing to entertain that.... But that's my reading

Communication is not what is intended, it is what is perceived.

[โ€“] Juno@beehaw.org 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

So you go around and pick on other people too and try to force your opinion on them eh?

[โ€“] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 5 months ago

Good point

[โ€“] krolden@lemmy.ml 15 points 5 months ago (2 children)

sustainable farming leads to famine

What

[โ€“] NataliePortland@lemmy.ca 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Iโ€™m speechless. I have no speech. How on earth can a person wake up in the morning and have a thought like this.

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Because not everyone thinks the same way. I can appreciate the basic concept of solarpunk and would love to be able to say I'm all into it, but there are some important questions I personally need resolved. If I didn't ask, I wouldn't know. They may not be questions you have, however that doesn't mean they're not valid.

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I didn't write that. I wrote, "subsistence farming".

[โ€“] krolden@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 months ago

Oops. Your point is still garbage

[โ€“] AccountMaker@slrpnk.net 10 points 5 months ago (2 children)

The meaning and ideas of solarpunk are still evolving, but the main themes are freedom, community, ecology and pragmatism. I won't go over the anarchic organisation of communities since I think you mistook the pragmatism for primitivism.

Solarpunk is not about primitivism and a return to a low-technological era, and neither is it a high tech cyberpunk spinoff, as some others think. Solarpunk is about using practical solutions that are also ethical and egolocially friendly. This often means not throwing stuff away, but fixing what can be fixed and reusing what can be reused, because mass production and consumerism is seen as a damaging force. So instead of trying to make up new tech and produce new things, solarpunk would ask you to first consider whether you can do something already with what you have, which means that a DIY approach is encouraged. However, if new technology can improve our lives without damaging everything else, it's acceptable.

And it is the complete opposite of thinking about the "good old days", as solarpunk is looking only towards the future. The 'punk' in the name means that when you look at all the doom and gloom in the future (capitalism, wars, global warming) you don't fall into despair, but instead try to play your part in your community to fight it and promote a lifestyle of mutual aid and a respect for nature, with whatever level of technology can give you the best results.

That was my attempt at a short presentation. We have a wiki and a manifesto if anyone is interested

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 3 points 5 months ago

Thanks for the clarification. Maybe it's the way stuff is written that has given me a bad impression.

[โ€“] NataliePortland@lemmy.ca 8 points 5 months ago

Subsistence farming is a terrible way to live

Maโ€™am are you okay?

[โ€“] xilliah@beehaw.org 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Did I miss something cuz solarpunk is high tech to me

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I think something about the style of writing or terms I'm not familiar with. Some of what I read on social media was off-putting, but it's likely I misunderstood.

[โ€“] xilliah@beehaw.org 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It sounds like it. To me it's really a wholesome combination of tech and nature. Like imagine growing up with all the benefits of tech but in a peaceful natural environment. That could be a farm but I don't see that it has to be.

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I can't think of much I'd rather not do than live on a farm. I'm from the Midwest (Indiana) and it is a backwards, intolerant place full of backwards, intolerant people. They have tech and they still suck. I also hate gardening so that's also in my bottom 10. The ideals of solarpunk sound nice, but I don't know how well that would play out in reality. I probably wouldn't like it.

[โ€“] xilliah@beehaw.org 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Oh I know what that's like, it sucks. And I used to dislike nature too, so I get that.

Sure good question how that would play out. We can also wonder that about the culture we live in right now.

What kind of society would you like? I wonder what you think of art deco such as the Chrysler building.

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What kind of society would you like?

Oh jeez, I'm not going to try and tackle that question right now, but I will say I'd like a much fairer one where people are taken care of.

I wonder what you think of art deco such as the Chrysler building.

I love Art Deco! The Chrysler building is beautiful, but I don't think the world needs skyscrapers.

[โ€“] xilliah@beehaw.org 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What about the hoover building?

Just going for something techy here that's without nature

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Techy without nature? I don't know where you're going with this.

[โ€“] xilliah@beehaw.org 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Nowhere I think. Is that good, bad or weird?

I suppose I was trying to figure out what style of society suits you better. I just think it was interesting that you were motivated to post.

Hmm do you know the venus project? That's pretty cool. Or arcosanti. Auroville.

Anyway no worries if you wanna drop it.

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 2 points 5 months ago

My post was essentially a knee-jerk response to a blog I read. It's not really all that important, I just thought it would make for a entertaining post. And it was.

[โ€“] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

An almost enthusiastic fantasy surrounding primitism and the loss of technology.

I would disagree with that statement. Solarpunk people aren't Amish.

Technology is ever present, but the idea is to use technology to limit its impact on nature and live more in harmony with it. For instance, a house designed to require very little heating and cooling isn't less technologically advanced as one that needs tons of HVAC.

And some solarpunk ideas of building resiliency aren't crazy ideas but are based on sound engineering design principles.

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 2 points 5 months ago

Thanks for the clarification!

[โ€“] darkphotonstudio@beehaw.org 2 points 5 months ago

Yeah, thanks for clearing that up. I think I just got a bad impression from some posts I read and terms I may have misconstrued.