this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2024
193 points (100.0% liked)

Europe

8484 readers
3 users here now

News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, 🇩🇪 ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures

Rules

(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)

  1. Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
  2. No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
  3. No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.

Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The patchwork plains of Castilla-La Mancha, in central Spain, were once known for their windmills.

But now it is wind turbines, their modern-day equivalent, which are much more visible on the region’s skyline.

The 28 vast turbines of the Sierra del Romeral windfarm, perched on hills not far from the historic city of Toledo, look out over this landscape.

Operated by Spanish firm Iberdrola, they are part of a trend that has accelerated Spain’s renewable energy output over the past half-decade, making the country a major presence in the industry.

Spain’s total wind generation capacity, its prime renewable source in recent years, has doubled since 2008. Solar energy capacity, meanwhile, has increased by a factor of eight over the same period.

This makes Spain the EU member state with the second-largest renewable energy infrastructure, after Sweden in first place.

Earlier this year, Spain's Socialist Workers' Party prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, described his country as "a driving force of the energy transition on a global scale".

The boom began soon after the arrival of a new government under Mr Sánchez in 2018, with the removal of regulatory obstacles, and the introduction of subsidies for renewable installation. The pandemic further accelerated the trend on a domestic level.

"The impact of Covid was very positive for our sector," says José Donoso, chief executive of UNEF, the Spanish Photovoltaic Association, which represents the solar panel sector. "People saved money, took time to think about what to do with it, and many of them decided that it was better invested on their roof than in their bank."

Meanwhile, the government introduced ambitious new targets, including covering 81% of Spain’s electricity needs with renewables by 2030.

However, behind this success story, there are concerns within the electricity industry caused by an imbalance between supply and demand with, at times, a surplus of electricity.

Even though the Spanish economy has bounced back strongly from the trauma of the Covid pandemic, and is growing faster than all of the bloc’s other big economies, electricity consumption has been dropping in recent years.

Last year, demand for electricity was even below that seen in the pandemic year 2020, and the lowest since 2003.

"What we saw until 2005 was that when GDP increased, demand for electricity increased more than GDP," says Miguel de la Torre Rodríguez, head of system development at Red Eléctrica (REE), the company that operates Spain's national grid.

More recently, he says, "we've seen that demand has increased less than GDP. What we're seeing is a decoupling of energy intensity from the economy".

There are several reasons for the recent drop in demand. They include the energy crisis triggered by Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2022, which caused businesses and homes across Europe to cut back on usage.

Also, energy efficiency has improved and become more commonplace.

The increased usage of renewable energy has also contributed to the reduction in demand for electricity from the national grid.

Mr Rodríguez says that during daylight hours, when solar energy output is particularly strong, the supply-demand balance can be pushed out of kilter, having an impact on prices.

"Since the power system always has to have an equilibrium – demand has to equal generation – that has meant there has been excess generation during those hours," he says.

"That has driven prices down, especially during certain hours, when the prices have been zero or even negative."

While such low prices are welcome for consumers, they are potentially a problem when it comes to attracting investment to the industry.

"This can make it more difficult for investors to increase their investment in new electricity based on renewable energies," says Sara Pizzinato, a renewable energy expert at Greenpeace Spain.

"That can be a bottleneck for the energy transition."

Concerns about Spain having an excess of electricity have led to discussion of the need to accelerate the "electrification" of the economy, which involves moving it away from fossil fuels. The Sánchez government has set a target of making 34% of the economy reliant on electricity by 2030.

"This process is going slowly, and we need to accelerate it," says UNEF’s José Donoso.

"Electricity is the cheapest and most competitive way to produce clean energy.

"We need facilities that use electricity in place of fossil fuels."

Shifting to a total reliance on electricity is seen as unrealistic, as some important sectors like chemicals and metals will find the transition difficult.

However, Mr Donoso and others see plenty of scope for swifter electrification. For example, Spain is trailing many of its European neighbours when it comes to the installation of heat pumps in homes, and the use of electric cars, which only make up around 6% of vehicles on the road.

Ms Pizzinato agrees that electrification is crucial, but says there are other ways of tackling the supply-demand quandary, including phasing out the use of nuclear plants more quickly, and increasing energy storage capability.

She says: "We need to engage more people and more industries in demand-side management, to make sure the flexibility needed in the system is out there to make generation and demand match better during the day and during the night."

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] justdoitlater@lemmy.world 74 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Amazing how such a positive thing can be written in such a dubious, not positive way! Green energy, more home efficiency, surplus of energy, not dependent from russian gas -> meh

[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 24 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The article: "Oh no! The excess solar production during peak hours might discourage investors from putting solar panels!"

Anyone with a brain: "why don't we fucking skip the investors and instead invest publicly in solar if it's so goddamn cheap?!"

[–] CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net 3 points 4 months ago

Won't someone think of the investors?!

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 4 months ago

Or, even if it’s inefficient, let’s start investing in grid scale storage!

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

The days where the BBC had any sort of editorial independence are long gone.

[–] laughterlaughter@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

Yup, I hated that "Too much of a good thing durr hurr" phrase in this context.

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemm.ee 39 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Desalination of sea water. Keep our wells full by pulling from the ocean with this free energy

[–] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 20 points 4 months ago

Spain does actually have a growing issue with water scarcity, so this should absolutely be on the table.

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yup, and hydrogen for the greenification of steel production. Pump water into elevated reservoirs as energy storage.

Plenty of good things to do with excess power.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

All the places to build new hydro storage have been taken.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] JohnOliver@feddit.dk 25 points 4 months ago (19 children)

Its only a problem because we dont yet have a solution to it. In realitty this is a really good thing! We just need a way to store or make use of the excess energy

[–] then_three_more@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago (4 children)

I'd argue it's not even that we don't have a solution.

It's we need to implement the solution. There's absolutely tonnes to energy storage solutions ( batteries, storing it as heat, storing it as potential energy) that would work well on grid scale, just need to have their implementation catch up with generation capacity.

[–] JohnOliver@feddit.dk 3 points 4 months ago

True! Also once storage becomes feasible, turbine prices will soar! So i guess making more than we need now, is a good investment (assuming lobbying does not get in the way of energy storing)

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Don't forget charging electric vehicles.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 4 points 4 months ago (13 children)
[–] TheOakTree@beehaw.org 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Cool to see this come up! I recently had to write a (mock) proposal regarding different efforts to store excess green energy and I had a blast reading about gravity batteries and pumped hydro. Hopefully, these projects come along sooner than later, as widespread adoption will take much longer than the first several implementations.

Another neat tidbit I learned while researching pumped hydro is that hydroelectric dams actually use the remaining inertia of the spinning generators to pump water back up the dams, which is much like the idea of regenerative braking in EVs.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (12 replies)
load more comments (17 replies)
[–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago (15 children)

No problem: French nuclear reactors need to lower output in hot summers anyway because that shit relies on river water to be cold enough for cooling. Then they buy electricity from neighboring countries.

[–] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 18 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Apparently, France has historically dragged their feet when it comes to letting the Iberian peninsula connect their grid to the rest of Europe.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/06/07/is-france-an-obstacle-to-the-iberian-peninsula-s-goal-of-becoming-an-energy-supplier

https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/ribera-spain-has-enormous-difficulties-with-france-on-cross-border-energy-links/

Which is an absolute shame, because the region should be a gigantic asset to Europe's renewable energy supply.

Map of solar power productivity depending on hours of sunlight: https://www.hotspotenergy.com/DC-air-conditioner/Solar-Map-Europe.png

[–] EunieIsTheBus@feddit.de 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Non non non! Oh mondieu! The Spanish have le cheap green electricity! We have to prevent them to make our expensive state funded nuclear garbage obsolete or our nuclear companies cannot launder more tax money! Sacrebleu!

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (14 replies)
[–] fushuan@lemm.ee 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

For having such a surplus of energy, they sure don't fucking make it cheap! It's their prices that discourage citizens on using the electricity...

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Better than the alternative, over here it's so cheap that people waste it and the government wants to increase production instead of forcing us to be responsible. There's about 25 TWh we could save and instead we're investing to produce an extra 10 TWh from wind turbines... At least we're already 100% green, but still...

[–] fushuan@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm sorry, but private companies price gouging it and getting record profits will never be better than the alternative you are proposing.

If it was actually cheap the tax would increase, simple as that. The government had to reduce the tax to compensate for the rpice during covid and the fucking companies raised the price so much that we ended up with higher prices than before, post tax.

Your alternative sounds great...

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 months ago (8 children)

Sure, utilities need to be nationalized (like they are here), it's still ridiculous that we're flooding land by building hydro dams so we can be the place where we have the most private pools per capita or people can run their AC 24/7 even if it's 20° outside... Instead we should be working towards getting people to reduce their energy usage.

[–] fushuan@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I agree in principle but as always, it's super unfair to place the main blame on normal citizens when there's companies spending way, way more than citizens ever will, and those companies prefer to spend money bribing politicians so that their excessive electricity usage is ignored instead of investing in alternative ways of managing their needs.

I don't have numbers to back my statement right now but I don't think they are necessary.

I do agree that there are plenty people that waste the resources given to them, but they are not a majority and and I usually just complain to them directly, generalising about them before the actual major factors only pits us against each other.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] voltar13@szmer.info 9 points 4 months ago

EU, just connect the internal energy market, so that we could accelerate the rate of phasing out the fossil power plants.

[–] luckystarr@feddit.de 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

What's the consumer price for electricity in Spain?

[–] fushuan@lemm.ee 16 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Too high, it's generally advised to avoid using electricity when possiblenand a lot of people are on special plans where it's cheaper on specific hours to save more money.

To have the gall to complain when the electrical company had tons of profits with the price gouging they did during covid, where the government tried to lower it by reducing the tax, and the companies raised it way more to make it even more expensive then before. There's few industries that I hate more than the electricity industry in Spain.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Cikos@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

eu can export its excess energy to each other. wasnt this is the case even before green energy? why its written in such bad way.

if other comments are any indication, the gov should lower electricity cost to increase demand

[–] Iceblade02@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

Transport grids aren't free, and excess electricity production is bad as it requires curtailment (wastage) which isn't free either to prevent damage to electric equipment (very expensive).

Besides, when renewables produce these excesses, this will often be the case in a very large area.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 4 points 4 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


The patchwork plains of Castilla-La Mancha, in central Spain, were once known for their windmills.But now it is wind turbines, their modern-day equivalent, which are much more visible on the region’s skyline.The 28 vast turbines of the Sierra del Romeral windfarm, perched on hills not far from the historic city of Toledo, look out over this landscape.Operated by Spanish firm Iberdrola, they are part of a trend that has accelerated Spain’s renewable energy output over the past half-decade, making the country a major presence in the industry.Spain’s total wind generation capacity, its prime renewable source in recent years, has doubled since 2008.

Earlier this year, Spain's Socialist Workers' Party prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, described his country as "a driving force of the energy transition on a global scale".The boom began soon after the arrival of a new government under Mr Sánchez in 2018, with the removal of regulatory obstacles, and the introduction of subsidies for renewable installation.

"Meanwhile, the government introduced ambitious new targets, including covering 81% of Spain’s electricity needs with renewables by 2030.

"Concerns about Spain having an excess of electricity have led to discussion of the need to accelerate the "electrification" of the economy, which involves moving it away from fossil fuels.

Shifting to a total reliance on electricity is seen as unrealistic, as some important sectors like chemicals and metals will find the transition difficult.However, Mr Donoso and others see plenty of scope for swifter electrification.

For example, Spain is trailing many of its European neighbours when it comes to the installation of heat pumps in homes, and the use of electric cars, which only make up around 6% of vehicles on the road.Ms Pizzinato agrees that electrification is crucial, but says there are other ways of tackling the supply-demand quandary, including phasing out the use of nuclear plants more quickly, and increasing energy storage capability.She says: "We need to engage more people and more industries in demand-side management, to make sure the flexibility needed in the system is out there to make generation and demand match better during the day and during the night."


The original article contains 877 words, the summary contains 349 words. Saved 60%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] PixelTron@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Go Spain! Good work.

I thought this might be one good way to deal with it: https://youtu.be/DSQ0i4b-5ug?si=g2LLwxuRtk1t9XFf (repurposing old coal plants for storage)

[–] pizzazz@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

I can't believe people in the comments are so ignorant and gullible LOL

Maybe study more in depth how the electricity grid and the public incentive system works and them come back with a more informed and less populist opinion

load more comments
view more: next ›