this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2024
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This article was posted shortly before the election but everything in there is still true and seeing his appointees perhaps worse than predicted.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 103 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

We live in an era where democracies once considered “consolidated” — meaning so secure that they couldn’t collapse into authoritarianism — have started to buckle and even collapse.

Literally everytime a society acts like authoritarianism isn't a threat...

You'll never guess what shows up.

It's a constant fight, it will literally never be over. But over and over, all it takes is 2 or 3 generations for people to think it was really over last time.

A huge part of the issue is writing them all off as evil monsters. The leaders always are. But their supporters are almost always desperate people who think they're doing the right thing.

To truly keep it at bay, we need a society where everyone has enough to live comfortably so they're not desperate and looking for scapegoats to blame. It would solve the vast amount of local crime as well. We focus on making prison worse than poverty, but no one would choose prison over a comfortable life.

[–] jrs100000@lemmy.world 41 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It would be easier to believe they think they are doing the right thing if they weren't so excited about all the people they want to hurt.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Because they believe the people they're going to hurt are hurting others worse...

There is nothing new about what is happening.

[–] jrs100000@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

I didn't say there was anything new about it. People are, and always have been, capable of monstrous evil. It is normal human behavior, but that doesn't make it any less vile.

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[–] psycho_driver@lemmy.world 14 points 3 weeks ago

MAGAs are bad people.

[–] Seleni@lemmy.world 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

-Terry Pratchett

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

I agree with the sentiment. But I think one of the perils of Democratic erosion has been "Us" having less and less say in how government functions, particularly at the local level.

The mayor is as alien and removed from me as any CEO or celebrity. City council is dominated by real estate agents and business cronies. Even the school board is inaccessible, as they pay far more attention to their friends in state government than anyone with kids in grade school.

Fearmomgering against the other is a tool leveraged to win high office. But it's hard to see who isn't just running a racket when the profession seems to repel activists and draw in shills like a magnet.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 59 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Carl Sagan wrote in 1995:

I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...

The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance

While there were always idiots, they often lacked the capacity to engage or equip themselves with such a sophisticated web of lies to prop up their beliefs. As such, Joe Schmoe from Bumfuck, Alabama had a limited platform and so could go on his blissfully ignorant way without much harm beyond his county line.

These days? They all communicate together and domestic and foreign operatives can reach them all the same to stoke division.

Crazy to watch.

[–] WeUnite@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago

I hope we can still correct course. The sad part is what many would consider a prediction is more that he was observing trends already happening even back then.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 56 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Reported as a duplicate from 3 weeks ago:

https://lemmy.world/post/21605389

Allowing this for now as the discussion following a Trump win has a different context than hypotheticals from before a Trump win.

For example:

Before the election Trump was still claiming he knew nothing of Project 2025.

AFTER the election, his nominee to run the FCC is the guy who WROTE the FCC chapter of Project 2025.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-brendan-carr-federal-communications-commission-rcna180567

[–] WeUnite@lemm.ee 22 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm very sorry, I tried to use the search function prior to posting to make sure it wasn't already posted. I don't know if it was because I made a mistake or if it was because I searched based on the URL instead of the title but for some reason I didn't receive any results.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 17 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Generally, I'd just pick the most unusual word from the headline, search for that, and sort by "New". In this case "Extinction".

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 40 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Nations rise and fall. Its fine. Eventually dictatorships fall. The climate, however...

Theres no time...

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Maybe we'll get lucky and the economy will collapse.

[–] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 2 points 3 weeks ago

Seems likely

[–] Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee 33 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

"Democratic collapse nowadays isn’t a matter of abolishing elections and declaring oneself dictator, but rather stealthily hollowing out a democratic system so it’s harder and harder for the opposition to win. This strategy requires full control over the state and the bureaucracy: That means having the right staff in the right places who can use their power to erode democracy’s core functions."

The establishment Dems and Reps have been doing this for decades. Trump is just the last straw. He's walking away with the monster they created and he's probably going to let it off the leash.

The only question I have is whether the oligarchy wants him to do that. Imo they weren't ready for it last time. They built the monster for someone controllable like Clinton or Jeb!, and I think they were actually surprised when Trump won the first time. This time they made him a nice little play book, and they've had some time to learn how to at least keep him pointed in the right direction, if not controlled. They might be ready to release the monster they created. Everyone will blame Trump too, instead of the oligarchy... Bonus.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

The only question I have is whether the oligarchy wants him to do that.

Quite a few have explicitly said they do. That's a big reason why Trump won with Silicon Valley conservatives this year.

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[–] SeattleRain@lemmy.world 21 points 3 weeks ago

Meh, it died long ago for marginalized people, it's just catching up to white people now.

[–] shoulderoforion@fedia.io 21 points 3 weeks ago

posted under : no shit

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 19 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

So we should stage an insurrection to prevent him from taking power right?

Right?!

Oh, no, we’re gonna just act like this isn’t an existential threat like you’re saying.

So why should I believe you when you say something is a threat?

[–] AWistfulNihilist@lemmy.world 14 points 3 weeks ago

Preach. If everyone who wrote about the end of democracy actually believed what they were saying, this wouldn't be getting downvoted. If anyone who wrote articles like this actually believed it, these would be calls to action, not liberal hand wringing.

If people actually do believe this, and in response sit there doing nothing, they are cowards. Plain and simple. If you think this is the end of democracy, what are gonna do... vote democracy back? Ya'll don't, you know how I know ya'll don't? You aren't doing anything about it, and you won't.

Like fuck off with this ridiculous, inflammatory shit. It already lost the election and both houses, maybe focus on figuring out how to win a fucking election once everyone realizes these idiots can't actually govern in 2 years, again!

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 12 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Not even going to act like this isn't a good idea.

Rationalizing it to be a BETTER insurrection than what he already tried won't work. That would trigger another civil war and set the country back a hundred years.

Fair game though: he's going to absolutely ruin the economy and the country anyway, so...🤷

All the organizing bullshit people are running hopium for won't work for these people. We are LITERALLY living the same politics of the Nazi and fascist rise in Europe. You won't turn it around until other people step in to start a world war and declare these people insane. Unfortunately the world powers right now that would step in are most interested in elimination of the US. Bad spot to be in.

[–] shadow@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

This is written as if the election were still in the future. We're going in, and it's going to be hell. This is the loadout selection screen before the match starts. We need to be thinking of ways we can bolster our communities and defend ourselves.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 19 points 3 weeks ago

This is written as if the election were still in the future

Because it was at the time

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

That headline though. My inner pedant just cannot leave it alone. Democracy is like Nature. It does not care about you or me or Trump. It will continue to exist as an idea no matter what he does. Other countries will even continue to use it.

[–] andyortlieb@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Same as anarchism.

Lots of people valuing self reliance and care for others without regard for our existing leaders and systems. There just happens to also be systems of governments around.

[–] zeca 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

excuse my ignorance, but ive always wondered this about anarchism: Seems to me that people gather and organize themselves to reach common goals. How can these organizations not become governments? is that actually possible?

[–] andyortlieb@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I think like any other political or philosophical view, this is one of those things where you will get one unique answer per each anarchist you ask.

Speaking personally, I think philosophies should be used as tools, and as the best tool for a job.

To me, anarchism means disregarding established authority and working together to achieve whatever a goal is. Ideally cooperatively. Some groups will perform well at this and some will not. Some will perform better under a more traditional organized structure.

I don't want to subjugate people with anarchist dogma. I want to help people learn to trust themselves and to cooperate. And I want to get better at it myself.

[–] zeca 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I see, so you see it not an actual state we may achieve, but rather the negation of present authorities and systems.

[–] andyortlieb@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 weeks ago

That is my take.

The delusion of grandeur I might suffer would be something like people foster such a strong culture of cooperation and mutual aid that state government operations and programs become obsolete.

That's a north star. Something to aim for as a concept. But of course we won't ever land a rocket ship on the actual North Star.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

By avoiding hierarchy. So it's like how a poker game has a bunch of players, but nobody is the boss of poker. And if somebody starts cheating, you either expel them or form a new group.

The hard part is scaling this up to billions of people.

[–] zeca 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

So as long as an organization is truly democratic, it can be considered anarchist?

For example, if one person likes to make coca cola but as a side effect he pollutes a river that the rest of the group wants to keep clean. The group may decide democratically to force him to not make coca cola. I would call this a goverment-like organization, even though it does not need to have a leader to fulfill its goal.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 weeks ago

I would consider that anarchist iff it's not hierarchical, yes.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

A lot of what is commonly called anarchism isn't a complete lack of government. It's more like removing the capitalist system and wealthy elite. Then not having large governments, make stuff like the town council the highest form of government.

I'm not 100% sure how that translates to modern mass infrastructure and global trade but those are the basic ideas as best as I can see.

[–] recapitated@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago

Oh ok cool, let's get right on that then.

[–] seaQueue@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

If only there were a way the opposition party could have done something about this like, I don't know, campaigning on a platform of better living conditions for the working class, more jobs and better pay instead of doubling down again and again and again on identity politics.

[–] skeezix@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The owners of this country don’t want that.

[–] seaQueue@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

And the Democratic Neoliberal Committee serves them extremely well

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Like what, helping people buy houses to live in?

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[–] shittydwarf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It's an extension level threat.

[–] adarza@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 weeks ago

that's in four years when he tries to stay in office.

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