Check out Framework if you haven't already! https://frame.work/linux
They're designed to be upgraded and repaired over time so they're super modular. You can also save some money if you're not afraid to put it together yourself.
How's the Camera working on these? On most recent laptops it seems not to be just a camera sensor like in the good ol' days, but a full blown i2c module, which does a lot of processing before delivering the images, and with rather obscure code that people is really struggling to build drivers for.
Works fine on Linux for me, you sure you mean i2c? I think you mean v4l2 or something, i2c max bitrate is like 500kbit/s. I can check but I'm pretty sure it's usb or something similar, it works on Google hangouts on Chrome at least, I use my fw for work.
While I support the framework laptop, OP did also say under a thousand dollars. You cannot really get a framework laptop for that price.
Edit: Thousand, not hundred
You can get a diy base framework 13 with either intel or amd for $849 w/o ram and the ssd, and just purchase those part separately for just about $1000 total.
True. But framework is an investment in a sustainable future since the mobo is upgradeable.
Mine in in the mail. Got the shipping notification last night. So excited! I didn't the past year saving up for it. I'm glad to see that everything works out of the box with Fedora.
I got their 12th gen diy last year and it was really easy to assemble. I was pleasantly surprised at how well thought out it was.
Lenovo is renowned for their excellent linux compatibility. I'm sure you'll get a bunch of proponents here saying the same.
BUT, oh boy. Don't get me started...
Too late. Having used various models of thinkpads in recent years, their inconsistent keyboard layouts will drive you absolutely insane. I swear, at this point they're just fucking with us.
I've got one in pieces somewhere, that has/had the ~ key next to the FN key on the bottom row! How the fuck are you supposed to use Linux if you're ~ key is down there? It's fucking stupid.
Not to mention their keys have a tendency to break off with just the mildest of fist slams.
AND the latest work-issued recent model is fucking with us again! It has the FN key ON THE LEFT SIDE of the Ctrl key on the left. Who does that? The Ctrl is always the left-most bottom key. Now, every time I fucking go to press Ctrl+something, I end up hitting FN instead.
Fucking morons! At this rate this laptop will also end up in pieces.
So, tldr; Stay the fuck away from Lenovo if you want to use Linux and not end up in prison for vehicular homicide.
Hahaha, I’m the opposite I’ve been so used to the thinkpad fn that I hate using other laptop keyboards.
Hear me out. Go to the BIOS. Swap Left Ctrl and FN! Thanks me later :)
Thank you! It's a bloody miracle!
Oh :( As annoying as that is I can't bring myself to completely take it off the board. Thanks for the warning, though! Nobody's mentioned that so far :)
It's not like other keyboards are better, I know why they are pissed and while it is annoying, Thinkpads X, T and P series are great linix machines.
What I don't like is soldered RAM. I got T490 after almost a decade of using X220, because it, at least, had one ram slot. Now I am rocking 48GB of ram in reliable hardware which os completely supported in linux (except bt having some issues, but still).
The Fn and Carl keys can be switched in software. I have a work-issued Lenovo with a similar layout. They can be soft-swapped in the BIOS. There’s also a desktop utility to do the same but I don’t know if they have a Linux version of it. I totally agree, the physical layout is annoying but it has a simple fix.
I've had to borrow computers with fn and ctrl swapped. I understand shat you mean
Used Thinkpad from eBay is your best bet to start imo.
No question, excellent compatibility, will last you a while, you can get a nicer one once you get comfortable.
Spent $500 on this one to hold you over till you can afford a framework, or spend less, you can still get by with a decent one for $250 or so.
I'm relatively happy with my System76, but based on your needs you could get a lot of value from a $500 used ThinkPad on Ebay.
I get a lot of value from my 150.00 ThinkPad T430s but then all I do is web browsing and occasionally compiling software on it so not exactly intensive things. It's a basic machine. A ThinkPad T series closer to 500.00 would be very functional.
I bought a DIY Edition Framework Laptop 13 with an i5 1240p for about $1050 after buying my RAM and SSD on their own. This is the best option if you're into modularity and upgradability and second only to buying used when it comes to environmental friendliness (in my opinion). Battery life isn't anything to write home about at least on 12th Intel though, supposedly 13th gen Intel CPUs do better
Otherwise, System76, Tuxedo Computers, and Laptop with Linux are probably good options if you want Linux pre-installed. All 3 of those take Clevo laptops and make them their own.
Starlabs also looks like an interesting option, but I believe the Starlite is the only option under $1000 USD. As far as I know, they're the only company that makes their own laptop chases from scratch for Linux.
Links:
Framework has quite a nice selection and the modularity is an amazing feature! Although having Linux preinstalled is a pretty big draw, and Sysytem76 has some VERY nice looking machines. Thank you!
You got all the good infos already, but I'll stress:
I have been purposefully avoiding Intel for the last six years. AMD CPUs are great if you are not stressed on ultra low power consumption. More threads, less money. AMD GPU drivers are open source and well integrated into the kernel, unlike NVidia's proprietary driver, which I will never go back to.
If you're looking for a cheap but solid laptop, you can get some pretty good deals on Dell Refurbished. Click on Laptops at the top, then look for the 50% off codes at the top of the page.
I've installed Linux on two Windows laptops:
So, I'd say that buying a Windows laptop and installing Linux on it is certainly viable, as long as you're ready to do some amount of troubleshooting or waiting for driver updates. Oh, and keeping the Windows partition somehow (dual booting or w/e) can be handy for firmware updates.
System 76 customer here. I just replaced my 2011 system 76 lemur with a new lemur. I have Ubuntu installed on both and have never tried pop os. I was very happy with that laptop and the company in general. It actually still runs okay. I did replace the battery after about 5 or 6 years. I'm thinking of trying out nixos on it.
My guilty reason for upgrading was I wanted to play dwarf fortress at more than 5 fps...
If you can you should try to savve up for a framework laptop
I'm on my second Dell XPS 13 Developer laptop which comes with Ubuntu pre installed. I loved the first one but played too much Minecraft and wore out a couple of keys. I had it long enough that decent replacement keyboards were hard to find so I got a new laptop from the same line. I love the second one even more. My brother, also a Linux-using software professional, made the initial recommendation, so there is at least one other person who liked this line.
I’d say Framework, but I don’t think they have stuff under $1000 unfortunately.
If I'd buy a new laptop these days I'd go with a framework. Other than that, buying a refurbished ThinkPad is always a great option and they generally run really good with Linux. As for support I wouldn't be too afraid, almost all hardware is supported these days as long as it's not something really obscure. The main thing worth checking is probably the WiFi card, I heard there are some that are a pain to set up, but I never ran into that. That being said most manufacturers won't officially support Linux and if they do they'll only support fedora or Ubuntu (speaking about big manufacturers, ofc there's system76 and stuff), but as I said I don't think I've encountered a laptop that straight up wasn't able to run Linux. Also if possible avoid Nvidia GPUs, they work, but can be a pain with drivers breaking on the regular
I bought a new thinkpad t14 for $900. I have arch and windows 10 dual booted and it's doing great
I'm fairly new to Linux, but I quickly learned that AMD based stuff is better for Linux.
Oh, really? I knew AMD was more popular among Linux users, but I never really made the connection that it was better, lol. Thanks!
nvidia drivers on linux is troublesome. They don’t support their own proprietary drivers well and don’t share with the devs working on open source ones. As expected, you end up with two different feature incomplete drivers and it’s a huge hassle.
iirc you should be fine with an intel or and cpu and it’s just the gpu you need to be careful with, but my experience is with an amd cpu and nvidia gpu so I may be wrong
Oooooh yeah. I currently have an AMD video card and it's heaven. No drivers problems, KDE Wayland works perfectly, it's just absolutely awesome.
If your on a budget, an older Thinkpad is a good choice. I picked up a X220 with a charger and spare battery off of Craiglist a year ago for $60.
Ended up going with Coreboot with a SeaBIOS payload and Debian OS.
The x220 is quite easily the best laptop ever made imo, and I'll never understand why they just don't slap modern hardware into it and re-release it.
I have enough money to buy a more modern Lenovo laptop, but I'm definitely considering getting one renewed simply because of how cheap it is. I'd prefer newer age specs tho. Thank you!
Everyone's made good suggestions, but I wanted to throw out there that I just recently learned Kubuntu actually has been making its own line of custom-made laptops for a while, called Focus. There's a few different models, and IIRC one or two configurations are below $1000. You'll definitely save a buck by going with Windows-first options, but if you want to support Linux that'd be one way of doing it.
Im happy with my ROG Zephyrus G14, which I only chose because of decent linux compatibility and a sale at Best Buy.
I would say when judging the price of a laptop, whether it is Windows focused or Linux focused, make your decision based off of mainly hardware specs (and that hardwares linux compatibility). For example (assuming same price), if a Windows laptop has a great AMD CPU and GPU, I would take that over a Linux laptop with an equivalent CPU but an NVIDIA GPU.
My best advice is to read posts / watch videos of people using / installing / reviewing Linux on said hardware before you buy it. For instance, Asus ROG laptops (like I have) require a program called asusctl to control certain aspects of the machine that are usually controlled by Asus's proprietary software. I would not have known this if not for researching beforehand.
EDIT: I agree with another comment, used Thinkpads are awesome and usually old enough that there will be next to no compatibility issues with Linux. Also, they're tanks!
If you're thinking of getting one, i personally would recommend getting one from https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/. Extremely good quality and a really clean distro with Tuxedo OS 2 although you are able to install on it whatever you want.
If you're in Europe, I can recommend Tuxedo Computers. They specialise in making Linux based computers, and are highly configurable.
I have a Darter from System 76 with Pop!_OS as my personal laptop that I code on and I absolutely love it. It runs extremely smoothly and I've not had any crashes with it.
I also have a Lemur from them with Ubuntu for work and it's kinda meh. Is difficult to say what causes the issues I have. It may just be the corporate tools but I end up having hard locks that require a reboot.
If you go with them I strongly suggest Pop! The distro is built for their hardware and works really well.
I want a system76 pangolin but I'm broke.
GODDDD u have no idea how much I feel u there
I know you mentioned System76, but I thought an anecdote of the gazelle 15 I bought during covid would help.
It's the 2021 model with a 10th-gen i5, 16GB DDR4 RAM, a cheap 256 nvme SSD, and a GTX 1660ti for $1300. Very good laptop that I've used the hell out of since then. Has an excellent 120hz IPS panel (1080p) that's just buttery smooth, and using pop_os on it has been very stable, even with all their firmware updates including the switch to coreboot for their UEFI. Plays all the games I needed to when I was away from home, and the keyboard is one of the best I've typed on, on a laptop.
Now my only issue with it, is the shell, which was not entirely metal as I was led to believe. It's got some pretty cheap plastic for the bottom side that feels like it will crack if dropped even from a short height. I THINK this has been changed in newer models though, as they were using rebranded Clevo laptops for their chassis. Still, I hate that it's half nice brushed aluminum looking metal and half brittle plastic housing a VERY (at the time) expensive parts. It's the only flaw
Does this change my mind on buying System76? No, because I've seen their newer stuff and it's made leaps and bounds from my laptop in just a couple of years, and I absolutely plan on buying a beefier Oryx Pro or something on the future. They're excellent Linux machines
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
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