this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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Those non-violent protests shook them so bad they wanted to charge non-violent Quaker protestors with terrorism.

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[–] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 64 points 6 days ago (14 children)

This is why peaceful protest is legal, it accomplishes nothing.

[–] hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 6 days ago (5 children)

Then why do peaceful protestors get arrested and brutalised by cops all the time?

[–] 4lan@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Target practice. Did you see the video where they shot the teenager standing still on a hill doing nothing? The shot him in the head with a rubber bullet, causing concussion and permanent damage. The officer high fives another officer right after.

The kid was literally just standing there doing nothing. A fucking child was used as target practice by adult civil servants.

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[–] other_cat@lemmy.world 9 points 6 days ago

Easy targets.

[–] luce@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

There isnt a secret group of evil lizard people planning out society. The evil in our society comes from the ways our oppressive systems shape people.

Our culture and systems believe(or at least act like) it is perfectly fine for a police officer/rich person to do murder/social murder.

So many people base their morals on what is legal/what the state penalizes, meaning if a police officer's or ceo's actions result in the death of innocent people, it is perfectly okay because they never get in any real trouble. This normalization of violent/oppressive acts done by the state and the rich means that more police (and more rich people) are going to feel okay doing shitty things.

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[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Gandhi disagrees

(Unless he's playing Civ)

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[–] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Thats not true. As much as I see the need for violent protest sometimes, peaceful protest can change things. See the fall of the berlin wall.

[–] Noobnarski@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

Yes, but also no. The GDR and the Soviet Union who supported it and supplied it were both almost bankrupt and economically broken. Infrastructure was falling apart because the state couldn't afford to fix it.

The potests sure helped, but the government of the GDR was also in a state where it would accept the demands as a way out. The protests probably did accelerate the downfall a bit, but it would have happened either way.

Similar protests years before were leading nowhere.

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 31 points 6 days ago (6 children)

Individual, spontaneous acts alone are not sufficient either. This is adventurism, which is fun to celebrate but does not actually change the equation. The answer is neither peaceful organizing nor individual aggression, but mass, millitant organizing! Throughout all of history, there have been no successful changes in the status quo without a mass, organized movement. Read theory and get organized. If you need a place to start, I suggest my introductory Marxist reading list.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The answer is neither peaceful organizing nor individual aggression, but mass, millitant organizing!

This is true, but also extremely difficult, especially in an era of mass media induced paranoia and alienation. Mass militant organizing requires a large cohesive social class that has a center of gravity - a church house or a social club or a workhouse floor - that increasingly no longer exists.

Social media was supposed to be the new venue for mass mobilization, and we saw the beginnings of it in the early '00s. But media consolidation, saturation from automated marketing accounts, and counter-programming have largely washed it out.

Read theory and get organized.

One is significantly easier than the other.

That said... go look for local unions in your town or neighborhood. Look for chapters of the DSA or the PSL or other labor-friendly organizing groups. Go to your local PTA meetings and city council meetings when you can, and get to know the people who show up there regularly. Get out of the house and meet people where they are.

That's all good advice. But its also hard, exhausting work. And its done in the face of enormous headwinds. Don't mistake the failure of leftism as a simple failure of "human nature" or whatever. We're in an entrenched system and attempting a Herculean feat to change it.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 days ago

Revolution, rather than being easy or impossible, is simply and truthfully hard. I agree, and that's why it is important to start building that and contribute to those who have already started.

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[–] yarr@feddit.nl 16 points 6 days ago (6 children)

As someone that was at the protest, at no point did I think it would result in the war stopping. It was still worthwhile, however. In retrospect, the war was so much worse than any of us knew at the time and also based on flimsy and/or no evidence of WMD. Business as usual in America. We'd do it all over again today, I have no doubt.

[–] Red89@lemm.ee 6 points 6 days ago (5 children)

They knew there weren't WMDs and used the fear of 9/11 attacks to push the war. They had OpEd pieces published to further push the idea of WMDs.

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[–] leadore@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The protests were amazing, nothing like it before or since. The media suppressed coverage of them as best they could. They couldn't totally ignore them but gave almost 0 coverage. Masses and masses of people packing the streets. Wish we'd had drones back then to get some good aerial footage.

[–] BMTea@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

I wish they had come armed. I wish Jan 6 happened to Bush. So many children's lives could have been spared across the years and borders.

[–] robocall@lemmy.world 22 points 6 days ago

American problems require American solutions

[–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 21 points 6 days ago (3 children)

It was also preceded by a violent act of terrorism that made people support whatever the president wanted to do in the middle east.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago (5 children)

It was also preceded by a violent act of terrorism

Its so easy for people to forget the decades of violent acts committed in and around the Saudi Peninsula, and fixate instead on a handful of retaliatory strikes against US interests. The Battle of Mogadeshu, which involved Black Hawk helicopters obliterating Somali mosques with hellfire missiles. The brutal occupation of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, from 1992 to 2001 as a US-backed narco-state. The entire Iran-Iraq War, sponsored by US arms dealers and double-dealing diplomats, which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Arab and Persian young people. The occupation of Saudi Arabia by a western-backed military dictatorship going back nearly a century. The violent overthrow of democracies from Indonesia to Egypt in pursuit of neoliberal international trade policy.

9/11 didn't happen in a vacuum any more than the Brian Thompson assassination or the aborted coup in South Korea. These have long historical tails that trace back to a geopolitical policy that's racked up a staggering death toll.

To quote Mark Twain:

There were two "Reigns of Terror," if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the "horrors" of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.

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Oh yeah because I forgot they totally proved Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were secretly the same person.

Iraq had zero to do with that terror attack but was used as a pretext for war based on the lie that the two were connected somehow.

[–] SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee 4 points 6 days ago

Very large* act of violent terrorism.

[–] randon31415@lemmy.world 19 points 6 days ago

I remember huge student protests for weeks on end. Then, over spring break when all the students were off elsewhere - the bombs began to drop.

[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Indeed and wait until Mango Fucking Mussolini decides to invade Iran. That will be one hell of a protest.

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[–] Sparky@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Cool sticker on your cybertruck!

[–] LaLaLa@ani.social 5 points 6 days ago

Cybertrain*

[–] ContinueToServe@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago

Partially because "peaceful" and the definition of what would or would not be accepted as valid protest became co-opted by the management/ ivy league class.

Compare the Seattle WTO protests to the 2003-2005 Iraq protests.

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 9 points 6 days ago

We want public healthcare. This act of violins highlights the anger we feel. It doesn't bring us closer to a solution. But imagine the roles swapped. We continuously live in fear of getting sick and then going bankrupt and homeless because of it. But what about from the other side...imagine a wolf in a house eating his sheep dinner. Imagine that asshole dancing around and humping several wolfority mates every night having the time of it's miserable life....and suddenly that wolf peaks at the window and has a sudden realization... Sudden because he suddenly opened the window. It realizes that there's nothing but sheep outside, all looking at him thru the window. Goes up to the roof top and observes himself surrounded by million upon millions of sheep all looking directly at him. The wolf sees one fellow wolf nearby as the sheep trample him. The wolf listens to his friend's bones crackling into mush. So just close the blinds and have another sheep from the fridge? Or maybe address the impending problem?

[–] doingthestuff@lemy.lol 3 points 6 days ago

This is why the ruling class pushes gun control so hard. Don't let them do it.

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