this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2024
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Summary

Elon Musk faced backlash from his followers on X after advocating for importing “super talented engineers” to address a shortage in the U.S. tech industry.

Musk likened hiring top foreign talent to building a championship sports team and argues that there is a shortage of talented and motivated American engineers.

Critics argued there’s sufficient U.S. talent being overlooked or underpaid, with some pointing to widespread tech layoffs.

Musk dismissed claims of low wages or training gaps, maintaining a need for exceptional engineering talent to advance innovation.

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[–] DrFistington@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yeah, when you import your slaves you can pay them less and they're more subservient because they don't want to be deported. It also drives down the wages for US citizens that perform the same jobs. News flash, there are plenty of good software engineers in America. They just aren't going to work 60 hours a week for 60k a year while the company they work for posts billions in profit each year.

If you need my skill and time to make a million dollars, I better be getting at least 15-20% of that profit. Employers can obviously afford to pay it if they can give a CEO that barely does shit 250 mil plus stock options

Musk replied. "OF COURSE my companies and I would prefer to hire Americans and we DO, as that is MUCH easier than going through the incredibly painful and slow work visa process. HOWEVER, there is a dire shortage of extremely talented and motivated engineers in America."

I'Ve BuRnEd OuT aLl ThE WiLlInG nErDs hErE aNd I nEeD tO bUy SoMe FrOm OvEr ThErE1!1!

[–] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 47 points 2 days ago

Right-Wing bootlickers continue to learn they aren't in the in-crowd they desperately seek to join.

[–] Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world 105 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Super talented = extremely desperate foreigners who'll work 90hr weeks for very low pay.

Just in case anyone needed a translation.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 18 points 3 days ago

And who are really indentured servitude type slaves

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago

I was "lucky" enough to be around during the dot-com meltdown and seeing H-1Bs still being used/abused, even as so many citizens were being cast away. This scam has been around for quite some time. The cap was 115K in 99 and 2000.

Perversely, when the bubble really started taking its toll, the cap was 195K from 2001-2003.

During much of this time period, you'd look around and see 200 people applying for one cruddy junior/intermediate type of software engineer position. Why the cap was not zeroed out in emergency legislation tells you all you need to know about anyone looking out for Americans who work for a living.

Companies claiming things are so dire that they just cannot find the local talent are so very full of it. If they were the least bit genuine, they'd be paying HIGHER wages to the people they do bring in on a visa and they'd be lobbying for permanent status, not this six year max thing.

Now if Elmo was talking about basically being a worldwide talent scout to bring people here with full citizenship status AND being paid top dollar, we'd be talking something different, but if he's talking about more H-1Bs, it's the same old shit as it ever was....

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 113 points 3 days ago (2 children)

He didn't explain to them that holders of H1B visas have to stay with the corporation that hires them or else they get deported. It's semi-slavery. Conservatives would love it.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 31 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

That's the only way to keep salaries depressed, which is why they're brought in. If they could switch jobs, there'd be competition among potential employers and the salaries would increase. The whole H1B scheme is a filthy racket. It depresses the wages of non-H1B workers, it exploits those on an H1B visa, and there's a whole cottage industry of faking recruitment campaigns before showing that a company was "forced" to fill a critical skills shortage with an H1B holder. For example, the qualifications can be written so that only people on certain Indian of Chinese computer-science courses can have the required coursework. Not that the applicant necessarily took the course, though: there's another cottage industry in India and in China of people doing exams on someone else's behalf.

And then there's industrial espionage...

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[–] RazTheCat@lemmy.world 45 points 3 days ago (6 children)

He's so fucking stupid. It's exhausting.

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 24 points 2 days ago

Well, I'm not sure I'd call it stupid, exactly. He wants indentured servants, cheap. It's about accruing more power and wealth to himself.

Now, our government should be set up to STOP unregulated capitalism like this, but at this point, it's been captured by the capitalists, and they are basically there to give a huge assist to capitalists instead.

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[–] fibojoly@sh.itjust.works 81 points 3 days ago (2 children)

What I'm reading is that he wants Chinese or Indian engineers because they are as qualified as the next guy, they're already used to insane hours and no holidays AND he can just pay them their original wage, which is peanuts compared to what US engineers make. Also once he's done with them he can just deport them. What's not to like?!

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago

The broligarchs have always loved the H-1B fraud.

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[–] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 18 points 2 days ago
[–] Michal@programming.dev 74 points 3 days ago (4 children)

"import" like it's livestock. Strategically avoiding the word "migration", too.

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[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 296 points 3 days ago (10 children)

Musk doesn't want a championship sports team, he wants a cheap, desperate, obedient source of labour.

[–] Ohmmy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 84 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Ah yes, the American dream.

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[–] Critical_Thinker@lemm.ee 188 points 3 days ago (4 children)

shortage of engineers? are you kidding me?

I know of two first degree of separation SWEs who can't land jobs. One worked at microsoft for like a decade.

FTFA:

Other followers accused Musk of simply not wanting to pay top talent what it's worth.

Bingo, got it in one. They don't want to pay american talent american wages, they want to pay all talent 3rd world country wages while they themselves pocket a 50 billion dollar contract.

[–] Wogi@lemmy.world 62 points 3 days ago (11 children)

He's running out of inexperienced engineers to burn through. He statedv early on that he wanted to create a surplus of engineers to drive down the cost.

That cost being, paying the engineers' salaries.

I work pretty closely with a lot of young engineers. My work brings them in as interns, hires them, but doesn't pay them very well and after 2 years we have new engineers because they've all found better jobs. Saturating the market with talent really hasn't worked out the way he wanted it to, because as it turns out that's nothing new.

So now he's gotta find a new way to pay engineers less.

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[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 40 points 3 days ago (7 children)

It's a common trick used in American Hiring Practices, knowingly set an impossible standard for hiring. Turn around and say "We can't fill this position with candidates in the US, here's the list of people we rejected. Can we get approved for hiring visas?"

And The Government falls for that bullshit guaranteed... after some donations to the Super PAC of course.

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[–] WilderSeek@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

I know most people will write this off as him being an idiot, but I believe he's doing this to distract from his involvement with the government. It's all theater to distract us from what he and the politicians he's heavily involved with are actually doing. Add in his involvement in the tech trade, and it's actually really disturbing what he may be doing.

[–] sudo42@lemmy.world 99 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Ya'll are not reading between the lines here.

"The number of people who are super talented engineers AND super motivated in the USA is far too low,"

The "AND super-motivated [sic]" is key here. By "super-motivated" he means working 80-100 hours for shit pay.

Yeah, both American citizens and H1Bs area getting tired of this shit.

On another vein, his government "positions" listing

"We need super high-IQ small-government revolutionaries willing to work 80+ hours per week on unglamorous cost-cutting." for "zero pay".

Is code for, "I want corporate lackies for this job." Corporations will pay it's reps to "work" in these government positions and basically lobby. No one else will bother because normal people got mouths to feed.

[–] Uruanna@lemmy.world 25 points 3 days ago (3 children)

It's not really "between the lines" when he's been straight up shouting exactly that for years. He's been very vocal about it at least since he bought Twitter, "keeping only the most talented ones who really want to work" and it turned out that only the immigrants who can't AFFORD to leave stayed for shit pay.

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[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 23 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The Muskrat wants cheap engineers that will work like China's 9-9-6.

[–] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 6 points 2 days ago

Well he saw that the only people willing to work at Twitter were extremely desperate to stay in the country

[–] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 23 points 3 days ago (6 children)

Do I really need to login just to view a comment?

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[–] TheFonz@lemmy.world 22 points 3 days ago

Globalism for me but not for thee

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 123 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Musk likened hiring top foreign talent to building a championship sports team and argues that there is a shortage of talented and motivated American engineers.

There's not, it's just they want good wages and working conditions

As an employer the way to get cheaper workers that accept worse conditions is flood the labor pool. With the cost of an American education, H1B's will always take less. Not just from foreign countries, but also from "better" countries with free education.

This isn't just bad for the tech sector, it's bad for everything that requires an advanced degree.

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[–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 69 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Deport the foreigners taking our jobs except for the ones who directly benefit me.

What. A. Shitstain.

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[–] Gork@lemm.ee 109 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Why work for a man who expects his workers to work "hardcore" for 80 hours a week without any overtime pay?

Sounds like exploitation to me.

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[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 16 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Musk is currently fighting with Laura Loomer over this and even pretended to be someone else in order to argue with her over Twitter Spaces and it is very, very funny to watch.

[–] Critical_Thinker@lemm.ee 14 points 3 days ago (3 children)

christ it should be a rule to never post links to sites that require accounts or logins when sharing information about a discussion without also providing screenshots or a non-account mirror.

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[–] Gerudo@lemm.ee 79 points 3 days ago (6 children)

Why don't you make the education system here in the US better first.

LOL who the fuck am I kidding.

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[–] Wispy2891@lemmy.world 45 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Don't forget that (using his words) he himself was an illegal alien that overstayed his student visa and started to work in his first startup with invalid status. Kick him out and ban him from re entry, no exceptions!

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[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Elon wamts to destroy education in the US so this is to compensate for that move.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 57 points 3 days ago (3 children)

This is what's causing backlash? Not any of the Nazi shit?

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 52 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Because this goes against the Nazi shit.

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[–] bitwolf@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Is there a shortage?

Or are you only looking at Bay Area hires because I see a great number of good and bad engineers in Midwest and eastern parts of the USA.

[–] way_of_UwU@programming.dev 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A shortage of engineers willing to work for Musk-led companies, maybe. Tesla is well-known in tech circles to have awful work culture. You can only survive with high turnover like that for so long before most American engineers know that there are much greener pastures.

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[–] Fades@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Yes there is a shortage, a shortage of workers who are unable to say no without being threatened with deportation and compensated with far lower non-competitive wages.

The industry is flooded with American workers though

There is becoming more and more of a shortage of good engineers who want to work for companies associated with him I am sure. All they have to do is read about his business practices.

He believes in overworking, underpaying, and is anti-unions because he knows they would fight against the wages, policies, and work practices he wants to force against people.

Elon Musk is anti-workers. And thus, since workers are the fabric of this nation.... Elon Musk is anti-america.

[–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I'll break the flow of shitting on Elon (a hobby of mine, but it gets old) and say yes, we have a large number of engineers. Yes, a lot of them suck real hard. Good ones are often promoted to the level of their incompetence, others are just well-polished incompetents who know how to talk the talk. So...yes, there is a shortage. However adding more to the pool won't fix the bad hiring and promotion practices in the industry.

Also, doesn't really matter if there's a bunch in the Midwest if you can't convince any of your existing staff to uproot to some racist pro-trump place with extreme temperatures (assuming you want some level of in person interaction). Texas is only palatable because the place they're moving is Austin which is....not quite as racist. And tech bros have never had a reputation for being pro women which of course Texas is not.

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