this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2024
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20091173

I've been waiting until after Christmas day to make this post, but some of our communities recently have had a lot of noise and upset over someone that uses neopronouns that most people are unfamiliar with.

So I want to make this clear. A persons pronouns are to be respected. This is true when the user is using neopronouns that you're unfamiliar with. It's true even if you think someone is trolling. Pronouns are not rewards for good behaviour. They aren't only to be respected when you like the person you're interacting with, or if their pronouns "make sense" to you. Trolls, spammers, twitter users, it doesn't matter who they are, your options are to respect their pronouns, or to not engage with them.

I really want to re-iterate the importance of this. Gender diverse folk are undermined, invalidated and questioned at every step of our lives. As a community, we need to be working to undo that, not creating more of it, and that means there is no space for treating pronouns (including neopronouns) as a reward for good behaviour.

This isn't a free reign for trolls and spammers. The rules still apply. Trolling, spamming, etc will continue to be dealt with, but it's not an excuse to act as if respecting someones pronouns is optional.

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[–] Jumuta@sh.itjust.works 26 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

i don't mind what people call themselves and I'll use it to refer to them if I notice it, but they shouldn't expect their pronoun to be understood if it's something obscure

[–] pack_of_racoons@sh.itjust.works 19 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Is it safe to asume that this is why the mods have

...been planning on moving 196 to lemmy.world ASAP…

per https://lemmy.world/comment/14170082

[–] yessikg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Eh, I don't see that as a good idea... also there's already a 196 in lemmy.ml

[–] pack_of_racoons@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 months ago

I don't like the idea either. If true, it seems like the mods/community are upset they can't feed trolls, or bully people who aren't the "right" type of queer.

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[–] Deestan@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (11 children)

When talking about someone, is using the commonly accepted neutral "they" allowed, or is it considered non-tolerable misgendering?

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

It's fine by me, but I'm not sure how other moderators (or admins) feel about it

[–] Deestan@lemmy.world 34 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Not personally affected, but I saw someone instantly permabanned with reason "misgendering" for a comment talking about "drag"'s behavior but using "they".

Not warned. Not comment deleted with "please use pronoun at all times". Just bam.

If the general stance is that reaction can be "up to the admin", that's a bit... minefield-y.

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

If the general stance is that reaction can be “up to the admin”, that’s a bit… minefield-y.

I understand that this might seem problematic. We (the mods of 196) are only partially in control of what is removed and who is banned, due it being hosted on blahaj.zone.

[–] Deestan@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

All good, thanks for explaining. :)

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[–] missingno@fedia.io 24 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's a useful feature of language for 'they' to be a valid default you should always be able to fall back on.

I don't even know who any of you are on Lemmy, and I don't care to. I'm rarely ever even paying attention to your names to begin with.

[–] klemptor@startrek.website 22 points 2 months ago

This is a big part of it, to be honest. Dragonfucker eagerly takes offense when people don't use the "drag" pronoun, but most of the time users aren't even looking at handles, and just defaulting to "they" as a general-use pronoun.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 2 months ago

It depends on the person. If the pronouns you are using for someone is upsetting them and they make that clear, don't keep using them. If the only pronouns you can use make you uncomfortable, then simply don't interact with the person in question. And if the person in question is trolling or otherwise misbehaving, report them without doing so in a way that ignores their pronouns.

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[–] CreatingMachines@fedia.io 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Wow...looking at these comments, i realise I still have a lot to think about regarding my exact stance on all this...the fact that I have have zero irl exp in this is not helping...

[–] MareOfNights@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Because nobody IRL uses neo-pronouns XD

[–] Beegzoidberg@beehaw.org 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Nope, never, except for all the times they do:

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/research-briefs/pronouns-usage-among-lgbtq-youth/

Even if you think it's a weird thing to do you could just choose not to engage, which is advice written in the post you commented on.

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[–] seliaste@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 2 months ago

I know some who do, quite a lot actually because the neutral french pronoun is a neopronoun

[–] Deestan@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

Opinions aside, thanks for clarifying this.

[–] block_place1232@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 2 months ago

Most of the time I don't ask people their pronouns in public I just tend to use "they/them" until I overhear someone saying their actual pronouns then'll use them.

As for here on Lemmy I just look at their pronouns in the bio or just don't use pronouns at all in my comments.

I respect everyone and if I make a mistake that's okay and I'll refer to them with the correct pronouns.

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

I'm seeing a lot of downvotes on this post, if you feel you disagree, feel free to send me a DM.

[–] lepinkainen@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

Thank fuck my native language doesn’t have gendered pronouns. I just use they for everything, much simpler that way.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Are 'nounself' style neopronouns included here?

[–] qaz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Apparently they are included, by the actions of the admins in the linked thread.

[–] homicidalrobot@lemm.ee 23 points 2 months ago (1 children)

NP don't bother me at all, but that user intentionally stirs the shit in myriad other ways. Short account lifetime, TONS of replies, intentionally controversial posts, feels the need to comment on every single post that gets traction. I think "we should be nice to AI because it might be alive" has been my least favorite arc so far, close between that and declaring all of lemmy transphobic (in a BZ post no less). Block drag and move on. This post was proof enough for me personally it was a great choice.

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Aside from all the drama, they also encouraged users to commit suicide (which is why they were banned from trans on blahaj) and used sock puppet accounts. They were banned from 196 2 days ago.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] qaz@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I copied from another comment using "he" and forget the right pronouns for a second, it's fixed now.

^(Kinda^ ^ironic^ ^I^ ^forgot,^ ^since^ ^the^ ^whole^ ^thing^ ^started^ ^with^ ^their^ ^neopronouns^ ^😅)^

[–] klemptor@startrek.website 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

^(Kinda^ ^ironic^ ^I^ ^forgot,^ ^since^ ^the^ ^whole^ ^thing^ ^started^ ^with^ ^his^ ^neopronouns^ ^😅)^

Ha, you did it again! ;)

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Time to go to bed I guess

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