Society absolutely shouldn't care what happens to it, until it can function outside of the mother by itself.
The caveat is intent though. If the mother INTENDS to keep the pregnancy to term, then yes, there should be some limitations on what she does to it. Eg no drinking while pregnant or other SCIENTIFICALLY backed things that can damage the potential baby.
And people still use them when they see fit, with little repercussions.
No, the “zygote” doesn’t have the ability to live without the life support from the mother. It isn’t sentient. It isn’t a fully developed being. It’s a clump of cells. It doesn’t get a say in the matter. Mostly because it can’t.
Clearly, even with the risk of death, people still have abortions, because they are a NECESSARY option. So, yeah it's already supported. All of that aside, why do you feel a need to punish women for nothing?
We have all heard of the "coat hanger abortions" performed everywhere. There are PLENTY of complications, namely death that arise from them, and yet, there are plenty of them happening daily.
Sure, HOWEVER, not being vaccinated puts society as a whole at risk. So, there are two options, be part of society, and get vaccinated, OR, don't get vaccinated, and don't be part of society. It's like wearing clothes in public. I sure as fuck don't want to wear clothes, like ever, but I do, so I can be part of society.
An abortion affects the mother ONLY. Not an apples to apples comparison at all.
We don't retroactively go and punish soldiers for setting mines, nor their commanders. So, no, it doesn't matter
I respectfully disagree
this kind of reductionist summary of the very real conflict of priorities does not help the situation.
scientifically speaking, it's 100% accurate. Just because imaginary sky daddy tells some people that it's already a thinking, breathing, living person doesn't matter.
If being unborn really counted for nothing, we wouldn’t have any laws that restricted action based on long-term effect. (For example: laws to prevent climate change, to prevent cluster bombing, etc)
We don't really though. There are no real punishments for any of those actions, or anything to actually stop people from doing them. Yes, we do have laws saying you can go to jail if you do drugs while pregnant, BUT that's because there is an INTENTION to carry to term, and have an actual human happen, that will be great affected by those drinking/drug uses during pregnancy. If you are so early on that you can/are aborting, SCIENTIFICALLY it's a clump of cells, with no chance of being a human at that time.
The abortion debate is one of those uncommon instances where two conflicting rights meet.
yeah....... not really. If I'm forced to carry the parasite, I have the only say in what happens to it. I'm a living breathing already existing human being. The cells are not, and they cannot live outside of my body, so please take them out, and let them do their thing. Please let's see what happens.
However, it’s important to keep in mind that this decision isn’t a law of nature-- no more than “killing in self defense is allowed” is a law of nature; these are societal judgments.
nature is pretty indiscriminate in what it kills, but humans have added their own beliefs, which vary wildly from location to location. Regardless, the government and especially religion should have zero say. Abortion is a medical procedure, whether you, imaginary sky daddy, or some religious zealot thinks otherwise, and should be treated as such.
In fact, you probably believe this to a degree when it comes to “stand your ground” laws, as implementing in places like Florida or Texas.
Not related, so not really relevant to this topic, but generally, as far as I can tell, those laws are simply and excuse to kill for the sake of killing, and because the person already WANTED to.
It’s important to keep in mind that there is no objectively right or wrong answer; if there were, it wouldn’t be a conflict point.
Except scientifically, and objectively, there is a right answer. Certain people just don't like it, but it doesn't change the reality of it. That's like saying I don't like religion so no one can practice it. Doesn't work, does it?
It necessitates a dialog to convince people to agree with you, and dismissing the argument as foolish doesn’t do that, which means it will remain an “undecided” conflict point for longer than it needs to.
I'm pretty sure, based on historical data, and observation, we all know that a respectful discourse isn't going to happen, and if it did, it wouldn't sway the party in the wrong. Also, at this point, I do not believe there are any "undecided" people left. Either you follow reality and science, or imaginary sky daddy. Those seem to be the only two options left in US society. Other countries see the value, and necessity, and treat abortion as such, but we aren't one of those countries.
But, but think about the clump of cells!!
I don't think anyone that's being honest thought anything different was going to happen.
@dekema Understood, but what I think people are trying to say is that TikTok isn't what you are looking for. It's trash content to keep people scrolling. Arguably all social media is that, but TikTok also has the "bonus" of being enough chinese owned that it's also a concerning data collection tool.
There may be a handful of creators on there, but think just about every link from tiktok you see. Personally, every time I see anything from there it's some dumb dance, some dumb car trend, or a new "challenge", or someone rambling about something they did/someone they encountered in public.
Unfortunately, if you want to make money, you need to whore yourself out on some form of social, and it's usually mindless useless content. And because you need to post constantly, to keep the algorithms happy, the content suffers. TikTok, Twitter, and Facebook being the worst currently, imo.
I maintain that they are tiny dinosaurs. Adorable tiny dinosaurs, but dinosaurs none the less.
Also, don't forget about how loud they are. They can hit some notes that I'm not sure kids can.
I have made friends with a salmon crested cockatoo, he's in his mid 50s, and awesome. So yeah, they live forever.
I totally don't miss all the flashing shit, and awful music on every site. Nor do I miss super long load times, but I do miss the more personal feeling. I also miss feeling like every click wasn't someone trying to get me to give them my money, or steal my info. Don't get me wrong, there were toxic parts of the internet back then, but I feel like its everywhere now.
Oh, and I'll never miss that dial up sound, or dropping because someone picked the phone up. I also know popups and ads existed back then, but I feel like every site I go to now, I spend at least 45 seconds trying (often unsuccessfully) to close all the pop up and ads, just to attempt to read an article. Of course more pop up if you scroll to keep reading too.
Basically, I mostly agree with the article.
I’m pretty sure he bible doesn’t explicitly state that abortion is murder or even bad. It’s interpretation.