beardown

Yeah we're saying the same thing. I recognize that there is a long history of denying Whiteness to people who have white skin. As I said, Irish, Italian, Slavic, and other catholic/orthodox peoples have been denied Whiteness at various points in history, in the US and elsewhere, in addition to people who are Jewish or Roma.

My point though is clearly the typical Irish person is white even if they are not seen as "White." The typical Bosniak is white, even if they are not seen as "White." And yes, clearly the typical Jewish person is white, even if they have not historically been seen as "White." But that's because really only White Anglo-Saxon Protestants are reliably considered to be White in the United States - which is a 3-part conjunctive test, of which people who are Jewish only satisfy, at most, the first two parts.

The point is that Whiteness doesn't even objectively exist, and is a socially constructed tool used to maintain the historical/current superstructure of Anglo Bourgeois hegemony in the West. So we should reject the classification of anyone as White rather than merely try to expand its definition to include historically oppressed peoples with white skin

Nevertheless, my point originally was that you don't need white skin to be Jewish. And because there are Ethiopian and Polish and Arab jews, it seems difficult to believe that there could be a Jewish ethnicity like the Zionists claim. And it seems that claiming that Jews are a distinct ethnic group is itself highly othering - and that othering is the intentional goal not only of White supremacist bigots, but also, for different reasons, is the goal of Zionist ethnostates such as Israel

the Jews who are white are often not considered to be white because they are Jewish. It is the othering of Jews we're talking about.

Yeah I agree. But those people would be white regardless of if they were Jewish. Whiteness as a social construct is determined by skin color or national origin or both. Religion doesn't have anything to do with it, although clearly through history it has - which catholics have also dealt with to some extent, especially in the WASP areas of the southern US.

But there's a difference between saying most Icelanders are white and saying whiteness is a necessary condition to being Icelandic.

Either ethnicity/race is a necessary component of belonging to a group, or it isn't. And if it isn't, then idk how one can claim that such a group is an ethnicity.

So long as human beings who are black, Arab, Asian, etc can be Jewish, then idk how we can say that Jews are an ethnicity

especially how many white people don't see Jews as white, but most non-white people don't see Jews as non-white.

There are people who are Jewish and non-white though - Ethiopian jews for example.

Which seems to negate the (Zionist-created) argument that there is such a thing as a Jewish ethnicity in the first place, as opposed to Judaism simply being a multi-ethnic faith like Christianity or Islam.

Clearly though plenty of people who are Jewish are also white. And clearly there is a history of denying them this Whiteness once their faith is "discovered" by those they know. Same as Irish or, to a lesser extent, Italians and Slavs. Which is wrong - as is the concept of race/ethnicity/"Whiteness" in the first place

Biden has said it over and over again

I agree that he has said it. But why does that make it true?

Repetition of a statement does not create truth

You seem to be unfamiliar with the mass labor movements and socialist movements that were present in the late 20s and 30s. FDR and his social democrats were the compromise candidates.

You speak against voting

Actually I didn't. Because, as I've now said for the 3rd time in this thread, I've voted for dems in every election I've ever been eligible to vote in.

Biden is not as bad as Trump

Agreed. Though there is the argument that neoliberalism leads to Trump/fascism. So a vote for Dems/Neoliberals/Biden is just prolonging the inevitable - which, even if true, is still worth prolonging

I might end up voting third party

Unless you live in a swing state, then you might as well - there's really no reason for voters in California or Oklahoma, for instance, to vote blue/red. And 2000 and 2016 demonstrate that popular vote victories have extremely limited moral/political significance.

Biden believes, sincerely believes, that Israel is allowed to defend itself.

You have no reason to believe that because you do not know Biden, nor do you have the ability to see into his mind.

The power of AIPAC and the usefulness of having a middle eastern port to place our aircraft carriers in range of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Turkey is a more compelling reason than any argument regarding Biden on a personality level

So what?

Biden is arming and funding Israel and is protecting them from international agencies.

Which is far worse than verbal statements

Trump is a fascist. But he never committed a genocide. Biden has.

Which is so foolish, as it makes fascism in America significantly more likely to occur, to disastrous results