EDIT: Clarified that in Endgame, I was talking about alpha quadrant Starfleet officers.
For your first question, I'd agree with others that it was a possible future that just didn't happen in the Prime Timeline - there is a timeline out there where "All Good Things" didn't happen and so that's the future there. It was the future until Picard saw it.
As for your second, I would say it was still a false positive. It's just we didn't have enough Borg shenanigans in the TNG era alt future timelines for anyone to care about the difference, combined with Jack Crusher probably never being born.
For the uniforms, my overall theory is that what we saw as the the early 2380s uniform and mid-2380s badge design process started in the mid-to-late 2370's. The overall more peaceful nature of each of the three timelines with the alternate future uniform meant that either the TNG uniform (for "All Good Things" and "The Visitor") or First Contact uniform ("Endgame", for Alpha quadrant personnel) lasted into roughly the late 2380s or early 2390s. This gave more time for the concept for what would have been the prime 2380s uniform to develop before rolling out much later in about the mid 2390s, slightly changing the uniform shape and getting rid of the black area on top. This uniform design was very persistent against temporal interference, but it was no match for the timeline alterations by Voyager's early return, which caused a faster design cycle and early rollout for what became the early 2380s uniform and Starfleet uniforms in general.
I especially see it in this comparison:
Here's some deeper analysis if you want it, contained in spoilers to keep post length down (lots of nitpicking and rants about Klingon-Federation relations):
There is the breakdown in Klingon relations, but that seems to be a common motif (like in "The Visitor"), and it's more of a cold war status than a Borg, Dominion, etc. kind of threat.
Otherwise, we don't have enough information on this timeline to firmly establish events. However, I infer this might be a timeline where the Dominion War was averted (or delayed) and Martok never became chancellor, as that event was sort of like another Narendra and if it didn't happen, a relationship deterioration with the Empire.
Evidence of this is in LD with Ma'ah's opinion that the Federation "earned its toduj" in the Dominion War, suggesting that event swayed his opinion on the Federation and likely others. This coculd be countered by the actions of Dorg and Bargh, showing that the views aren't universal. However, I think the relative level-headedness Bargh's fellow council members suggest that the brother's views are not a mainstream political view in the empire, at least in the 2380s.
(You could probably use STO stuff as counter to my argument, but I think the timeline of that game is motivated by a desire for a plot amenable to gameplay. I'm primarily going with alpha canon.)
As I said before, we can be certain that the "All Good Things" timeline was averted by Picard being aware of it, and that all timelines after are not that timeline.
Notably, Commander Nog appears with a TNG uniform and DS9 combadge... in 2389. This suggests that this timeline at least skipped First Contact, early 2380s, and mid-to-late 2380s uniforms, opting to keep the TNG uniform in for decades. This is kind of weird considering "Endgame", which I'll reconcile later. Anyhow, perhaps uniform designers had been toying with something like the prime early 2380s design; due to its longer time for development, when it was finally rolled out much later than prime, it manifested differently from its closest prime counterpart.
I think we can infer once again that the Dominion War was averted. For one, there's the reasons I provided above. I also think DS9 would sort of be sacred ground for the Klingons and it would feel almost wrong to them to take it outright if the Dominion War had happened like prime. The suggestion is further made by the fact that the Federation withdrew from DS9 in 2374, which would have been during the Dominion War in the prime timeline; this never would have happened with the wartime Alpha Quadrant alliance.
Additionally, we can tell the war never happened like prime because the Defiant was never destroyed - we can tell because they needed the ship to be basically the same to replicate the accident, and it was, judging by Jadzia's nostalgic reaction in the episode. If it were the second Defiant, there would have been differences as noted in DS9's "The Dogs of War".
Thus, basing on the first two timelines, it would seem like this uniform tends to arise when there are few mysterious threats, only regular ones.
To reconcile, it might be possible that in this timeline, the First Contact uniform roughly replaced what would have been the expanded life span of the TNG uniform (with error bars of a few years or so due to butterfly effect) instead of being slowly phased out in the early 2380s. Once again, the uniform concepts for what would have been the prime early 2380s uniforms were festering in the designers' heads as early as the mid-to-late 2370s and went through a similar development cycle to "The Visitor"'s timeline.
The state of Klingon relations in this episode is further evidence pointing to the role of the Dominion War in Federation-Klingon relations - B'Elanna's role and influence as a Klingon liason (based on Janeway's request) as well as Janeway's initially relatively easy dealings with Korath suggest relations are in a good state in this timeline with the Dominion War.
Despite the Dominion War happening, this timeline seems like it's also somewhat peaceful (only based on vibes, not canon analysis), considering that everyone on Voyager is either still in touch or dead - if this was one of those Picard-y timelines, at least would be a moody vigilante ex-Starfleet officer in some far off corner of the quadrant where no one can contact them.
I'd also say the anti-Borg/acquired Borg technology in this timeline might give an explanation for why the other timelines are so peaceful: the more organic technological development improved Fed security in all of them.
The fact that this uniform never appears again after this timeline suggests the early return of Voyager was the final straw for this uniform. We can't pinpoint exactly what happened, but I can think of a few different scenarios. The most likely one is something about Voyager's early return triggered a shorter design cycle of the future uniforms, leading instead to the early 2380s uniforms. Perhaps the early introduction of Borg defense tech to the prime timeline through Voyager's return caused a sudden leap followed by stagnation that either weakened Starfleet defenses in the long term, or Starfleet just wasn't ready to handle this stuff in 2378. Alternatively, maybe some key designers of that uniform got butterflied into a shuttle accident, or the timeline got so depressing that they decided to pump out DS9-looking uniforms instead.
I agree he’s not the best Captain Kirk, but I did enjoy his performance in the time travel episode (might have just been the writing and La’an performance like you said, though).
Now what we need is more George Samuel leaving crumbs and annoying Spock energy. I mean, the dude’s only got 8 years or so live… Give our boy some screen time!
Part of me is like, “Seriously! Mire multiverse stuff! Can we take a break, please?”, while the other half of me is like, “If it’s as good as LD or PRO multiverse stuff, I’ll take it!”
I am a bit worried about the fourth wall breaking stuff, but I wonder if they’re doing a Benny Russell “dreamer and the dream”-type thing, which might be fun.
The Clue episode looks fun. The trailer makes it look like this season is 75% quasi-holodeck episodes, which would be quite funny but is probably not the cases.
I agree with you. Thinking on it, I wonder if that's only a season 1 premise and they'll eventually get beyond that.
Now what would make it really interesting (but they probably won't do) is if this comedy had a backdrop of a weakened postwar Dominion a.k.a this resort planet is in the Gamma Quadrant. It would be very interesting to use it to explore the new power structures that develop in the quadrant since the weakened power of the Founders. You could also showcase how Alpha quadrant polities interact with Dominion worlds (kind of like what we saw with the Karemma in LD "Hear All, Trust Nothing") - we have an episode with Federation diplomats at the resort negotiating a trade deal, for instance (this could even be our excuse to bring in an LD character or two).
Unfortunately, it's not a Lower Decks continuation - I'm pretty sure that's the Tawny Newsome comedy about “Federation outsiders serving a gleaming resort planet find out their day-to-day exploits are being broadcast to the entire quadrant."
However, the involvement of Tawny Newsome makes me hopeful it will be good at least. I guess it also opens us to LD cameos at the bare minimum kind of like how they found a way to shoehorn Riker into pretty much every Trek show (I guess even technically DSC and SNW, if you count directing and/or Boimler doing the chair thing).
Admittedly, it would also be fun if they had a neo-Miranda class (perhaps we could call it Terrell class) Cerritos, but despite a similar role, it's not called the Cerritos A; it has an entirely new registry number because they somehow managed to forget about the original Cerritos.
TLDR; I believe Generations is the best of the TNG films and easily in the top 5 classic films, even if the TNG film series as a whole falls short.
I admit that overall, I would call TOS films the better series of Trek films - Search for Spock and Final Frontier are probably the only ones I wouldn't rewatch, meaning 2/3 overall of the TOS films are actually enjoyable in my opinion. In comparison, I am not a fan of half the TNG movies (NEM and Insurrection).
However, I disagree with lumping all the Next Generation movies as "completely null"; First Contact was at least reasonably fun. My biggest complaint might be the Guinan snub for Barclay.
Meanwhile, I feel like Generations is the rare Star Trek film that really just feels like a 2 hour episode (with TMP and maybe Voyage Home the only two other ones like it). I enjoyed the mortality commentary (almost worth the sacrifice of Picard's entire family, but not quite), while nothing strikes me as more classically Star Trek than campily choreographed fight scenes between a bunch of old men. I also personally enjoyed Data's arc - I feel like they made sure when it got annoying, it was purposeful, and they dialed it back right when they needed to.
Overall, I don't think it's fair to lump the first two TNG films into the bottom 5 like their later counterparts (which do deserve it); Generations probably joins Voyage Home for my favorite Trek films to rewatch.
Anyhow, have a wonderful evening. 🖖
cross-posted from: https://startrek.website/post/19819038
I'm ParticleMan. This is the #concert-chat channel on the tmbw (This Might Be a Wiki, the main fan wiki for They Might Be Giants) Discord.
I'm ParticleMan. This is the #concert-chat channel on the tmbw (This Might Be a Wiki, the main fan wiki for They Might Be Giants) Discord.
cross-posted from: https://startrek.website/post/19747430
A sequel to https://startrek.website/post/14985611
A sequel to https://startrek.website/post/14985611
cross-posted from: https://startrek.website/post/14985611
"Boss of Me" might be my favorite Flans song... besides "Put Your Hand Inside the Puppet Head"... and "Music Jail"... and "Let Me Tell You About My Operation"... and "If Day for Winnipeg". Nevermind. Please don't make me choose a favorite Flans song.
cross-posted from: https://startrek.website/post/14985611
"Boss of Me" might be my favorite Flans song... besides "Put Your Hand Inside the Puppet Head"... and "Music Jail"... and "Let Me Tell You About My Operation"... and "If Day for Winnipeg". Nevermind. Please don't make me choose a favorite Flans song.
cross-posted from: https://startrek.website/post/19356345
I finally got around to watching some Discovery (though I'm only through the first few episodes of season 4). My thoughts:
- First three are a moderately enjoyable sci-fi drama
- I have to admit, season 3 just presented enough interesting ideas and mystery I was able to ignore most of its flaws
- I've really started to notice death by subplots, though. It feels like they try to do 4 different plots in an episode, 2 which they do okay and 2 which are way weaker than they should be. I would have rather they done 2 subplots really well.
- I felt season 4's conflict was really contrived. The plot could have almost written itself with what happened in season 3. Osyra died and we don't even talk about the aftermath in the Chain - the slavery isn't just going to magically disappear, and there's sure to be a power struggle. Also, killing Book's family was kind of idiotic - talking about grief and obsession again is like beating a dead horse. Heck, if you'd let his family live but still destroyed the planet, we could have had an interesting story on diasporas instead.
- Also, background character development feels a bit weak. I spent half the first couple seasons wondering who the heck Ariam was, and just when I did, they killed her before the audience could develop much of an attachment. They could have at least thrown in a few more crew barbecue scenes.
- I am now more impressed at what Lower Decks did with fewer, shorter episodes a season than Discovery. They really managed to create a sense that we'd been with these characters a long time and that they were growing despite the entire show being shorter than 1 TNG season. I do have a few gripes about season 5 (my main one being how does Ma'ah go from "Beckett is honorable" like, a few hours after meeting her to immediately distrusting her in the finale), but my respect for LD has only grown.
I finally got around to watching some Discovery (though I'm only through the first few episodes of season 4). My thoughts:
cross-posted from: https://startrek.website/post/19150268
The Parliament just feels like a more beautiful version of the Nebula - it is rather elegant while keeping that Galaxy-class kitbash feel, combined with a bit of Miranda in the square edges of the saucer and a smidge of Sovereign in the nacelles. Nebula just looks derpy by comparison
True, Nebula and Parliament have a bit different purposes. However, other than nacelles, they actually seem to be about the same size interior-wise (based on some very Memory Beta info).
The Parliament just feels like a more beautiful version of the Nebula - it is rather elegant while keeping that Galaxy-class kitbash feel, combined with a bit of Miranda in the square edges of the saucer and a smidge of Sovereign in the nacelles. Nebula just looks derpy by comparison
True, Nebula and Parliament have a bit different purposes. However, other than nacelles, they actually seem to be about the same size interior-wise (based on some very Memory Beta info).
I went through LD 5x09 "Fissure Quest" to try and count/estimate the amount of Kims on the Anaximander.
The most we see on screen together not including Lieutenant Kim is 8 Kims on the Beagle Bridge (6 First Contact Uniforms, 1 Voyager uniform, 1 Delta Flyer uniform):
In the scene immediately after the opening credit, we see two non-Lieutenant Kims with the Voyager uniform:
Combining the 8 Kims seen on the Beagle with the extra Voy Kim on the Anaximander, I estimate there to be at least 9 Kims (besides Lt).
However, there are some inconsistencies.
We only see 6 (non-Lieutenant) Kims in the prison, despite it being somewhat implied the Anaximander is mostly empty besides Garak and Bashir:
In one count the mess hall scene, I counted what was at least 6 and at most 11 Kims.
Overall, I'm sticking with my initial estimate of 9 for now.
I wonder what could account for variations in Kims. Were some actually locked up somewhere on the ship? Did Lieutenant Kim forget one?
Also, assuming there are 9-11 Kims, is 14-16 crew (adding Boimler, T'Pol, Curzon, Garak, and the LMH) enough to run a Defiant-class, which usually has compliment more in the 40s? It could be possible that since it's a Section 31 ship that it's outfitted to run with less agents.
P.S I find it a nice bit of canonical accuracy that most Kims are wearing First Contact uniforms (and likely made it home), as since most timelines are close to Prime, uniform designs shouldn't be that different.
I agree weather controls exist - in fact, they'd probably be needed to solve extreme heat and drought in the city.
However, I don't think terraforming Mojave is the same thing as terraforming a planet - most planets they colonize that aren't already suitable for human life don't have a native ecosystem to begin with. What the pilot seems to depict is the elimination of an existing ecosystem and many habitats, which I feel doesn't seem very Trek-esque. While they would modify the local environment to improve living conditions, I don't think they would be inclined to do this much environmental damage.