Fuck Cars
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
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I think there's a MASSIVE difference between Formula/GT/Rally guys and guys who roll coal. True racing cars count for less than 1% of global emissions. The real problem is all the flights and transport necessary to get to the venues. The vehicles themselves are a blip on the radar.
Guys who roll coal are deliberately harming the environment for the sake of making a really stupid point.
I don't disagree but it doesn't let f1/nascar/etc off the hook. their 'hobby' is racing in circles burning gas.
Let me type that again, because the absurdity is powerful:
THEIR HOBBY IS RACING IN CIRCLES BURNING GAS.
work it out mate.
How much CO2 did I waste responding to this comment?
I think the larger point is that non-hobby, essential things like "going to work" or "feeding the family" should not be cooking the planet.
Their hobby is a feat of mechanichal engineering, and like I said, their prescence accounts for less than 1% of total emissions.The research and development that goes into these cars can also translate to consumer cars.
I wouldn't be surprised if the improved aerodymics, engine efficiency, and reliability from pushing engineering practices significantly offset the emissions created by the sport
Here is an interesting read showcasing that f1 puts out one tenth of the emissions that the world cup does and also shows that the races themselves only cover 0.7% of the sport's emissions. So that is 0.7% of <1% of global emissions, which is negligible.
I understand that off principle, it may seem like a waste, but thinking pragmatically for a second one can see that the benefits outweigh the environmental costs.
their presence accounts for less than 1% of total emission for what? it's far below total combustion emissions so I have no idea what you're on about; if you're asserting that the race itself only uses 1% of the total expended to move the cars to the next race etc., I've got radical advice bud:
you could end 100% of that emission by just STOPPING. Let them mario kart, let them gran turismo ffs.
yeah this seems like the nasa argument but the actual returns are tiny, teeeny amounts of cross-pollination from the race world to the real world, because even though the real world might benefit from something like radical aerodynamics (vacuum motors for example) don't work on city streets, or they're so feverishly expensive that they can't be applied to the average car.
Cute canard tho.
well that's fine because I'd like people to stop travelling massive distances for sportsball too. no need to compare, cut 'em both.
Less than 1% of global greenhouse gas emissions (And by my rough math, it could be lower than even 0.5%)
While many of the engineering improvements from racing aren't nearly as dramatic as they were previously (take the flappy paddle gearbox, for example). Nowadays, the improvements are lower level, think things like material science, manufacturing processes, and efficiency. But given the scale of the consumer vehicle market, these small changes add up very quickly.
Also, I dont think you understand what neglibility means. We would still be well on track for net zero carbon emissions even without sacrificing these culturally/socially significant activities.
The prime contributor to emissions by far and away is the industrial/power sector. Slight improvements there equate to decades if not hundreds of years of racing/football. A 5 percent decrease in either would easily account for thousands of years of both.
This is my problem with the "consumers need to do their part" rhetoric. We already are. The only reason things are as bad as they have been is entirely because of greedy mega corporations and governments who refuse to change due to corruption.
ok, how 'bout this:
you enjoy watching idiots produce smog that's not necessary AS YOUR FORM OF ENTERTAINMENT, and the rest of us will despise your shitty choices.
obviously you are never going to comprehend IT ALL NEEDS TO GO. Because this is your chosen form of entertainment, you don't give a shit about your children's future and will selfishly cling to a 'sport' which consists of idiots racing in circles.
You do you. what a strange fetish.
Except that's not the case. There are plenty of ways to offset emissions, and that is exactly how formula plans to reach carbon-neutrality by 2030. When that happens, what, then? Do you think they still need to go? Even if they are doing no measurable harm to the atmoshpere? What if they had negative carbon production due to excess offsets?
It seems you are far too obsessed with the principles rather than approaching the situation rationally/pragmatically.
Also, I don't even watch racing lmao.
show me a single one that can offset any significant amount of carbon emissions in any kind of useful timeline. they range from hideously expensive to outright insane (requiring more energy to sequester than was emitted in the burning). of course you're dumb enough to believe in these fantasies - big oil are the ones selling those too.
you're a fool, who's entertained by foolish things, and believes foolish solutions will come save you.
Carbon removal has been a viable solution for decades it just lacks the support necessary to scale. It has been proven to reduce the overall measued rate of c02 emissions here
Also, your entire argument is strangely pedantic. By your logic, anything that emits carbon needs to go, even if it's neglible. We humans emit more carbon than we intake, so should we just kill everyone? The same goes for house pets. Should we just kill them all/make them illegal? Im genuinely asking because so far, your argument makes no logical sense.
holy 5 months later batman...
It will always be more expensive to remove carbon from the atmosphere than to simply stop burning the fuels we have adequate replacements for.
No one is suggesting we'll have electric jets and shipping; but even industrial processes like steel foundries can go electric. Concrete too.
eliminating every producer of emissions objectively eliminates trillions in capture.
Furthermore, injection capture and other methods remain unproven for long periods - we don't want a solution that blows up 200 years from now.
You do you, but your sophistry about pets and killing all humans is unfounded and ridiculous. Akin to your premise.
I saw that I never posted a draft, lol.
Irrelevant, if companies and governments are willing/required to pay for it, then the cost does not matter. Also, pretending like the entire world can just not use fossil fuels is wishful thinking at best. If you think rationally for even a second, you would realize that is a nearly impossible task. Carbon capture will be one of many essential ways to offset emissions in areas where conversion to electric is infeasible
You are agreeing with my points here. My entire argument has been that shifting the onus to consumers for emissions is ridiculous. I have said multiple times that the manufacturing/energy production sectors are where we need to focus efforts rather than blaming inconsequential emitters like the consumers/ the FIA.
The problem with CC is not that it is unstable. It is that the current amount of capture is not sufficient for how much we emit.
It would be sophistic if you didn't try to argue that anything that emits greenhouse gasses "needs to go." I am simply pointing out how that logic is fundamentally flawed.
The realistic solution to all of this is a combination of everything. Transitioning away for fossil fuels where possible. Carbon capture can aid in sectors where that is infeasible. Offsets through companies like Wren have been proven to reduce emissions. (Yes, there are plenty of offset/credit programs that are not helpful, but that is a regulatory issue.) Increased public transportation options, more mixed use zoning, and more stringent manufacturing regulations, can also help. Change NEEDS to happen at a higher level before anything else can meaningfullly affect our course. And there a many intermediate steps we need to take before we can simply stop using fossil fuels altogether.
LOL, gonna block you now, so don't bother replying. LOL.
you think they'll plunge BILLIONS or TRILLIONS into capture when we can't get them to reduce the fucking output?
You really are a silly twat.
you can't bring industry over by itself. the whole system has to transition. Transitioning industry without consumers would be pointless.
You really have absolutely no grasp on this subject at all. It's impressive how silly this discussion is.
Offsets and capture are fairy tales the POLLUTION INDUSTRY has spun for you so that you won't be in the streets screaming for them to be held responsible. Good job, you toolbag, you're carrying water for billionaires while avoiding anything productive happening.
I should have blocked you when I saw someone was responding to a 5 month old post and never bothered to respond. What a bellend.