this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2024
637 points (91.1% liked)

Lefty Memes

4524 readers
1123 users here now

An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.

If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.

Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!

Rules

Version without spoilers

0. Only post socialist memes


That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)


1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here


Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.


2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such


That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.


3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.


That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).


4. No Bigotry.


The only dangerous minority is the rich.


5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.


We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.

(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)


6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.


Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.



  1. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (13 children)

I guess I have trouble groking the difference between "liberal" and "leftist".

Could someone summarize?

[–] UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 20 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Leftists HATE capitalism. They want to replace it altogether with some alternative economic system (market socialism, planned economy or a combination of the two) depending upon the type of leftist. Differences in leftists also exist based on the HOW of replacing capitalism (violent revolution, democratic reformation and so on).

Liberals ARE NOT leftists. Liberals believe that capitalism, with all its flaws is still the least bad economic system. They recognise some flaws of the free market and think that capitalism must be regulated to a certain extent by the government.

So again, all leftists HATE capitalism. Liberals dislike a free market, but think that regulated capitalism is the least bad form of governance.

Note: I know you didn't ask this, but just wanted to clarify - capitalism ≠ market. There's a large group of leftists called "market socialists" who want a market without the means of production owned privately.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

So which ones don't want abortions to be banned because Romans nailed a guy to a cross?

[–] UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Liberals and leftists both don't want encroachment of the state into personal matters. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule.

Now, what we refer to as the "far right" wish for expansion of the state for "moral policing", to conserve traditional values and so on. That includes banning abortions.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world -5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Yup. While left and right are vastly different, one thing that's consistent between them is "[whatever] is not evil when WE do it."

[–] UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You find hypocrites in all groups. That's what I meant when I referred to exceptions. However, if u look at raw ideology, liberals and leftists don't want to encroach in personal matters, while conservatives most definitely do.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

That's not my experience at all - I see freedom-loving conservatives constantly propose to restrict freedoms, and liberals constantly criticize the imperfections in each other's liberalness. "Live and let live" is a very rare attitude.

[–] dontgooglefinderscult@lemmings.world 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The left starts at anti capitalism.

Beyond that, for this meme, liberals are guilty capitalists the same way a Catholic porn addict is a guilty Catholic. They'll feel bad about homelessness, and spend billions "fixing" homelessness but never address the root cause... As that would interfere with their addiction. They'll feel terrible about drug addicts existing and spend billions "fixing" it by selling them different drugs and for profit rehab... But will never address the root of the problem. Liberals feel awful about x, but will never solve x of it interferes with capital. It's why they love rainbow capitalism, they get to feel good about finally doing the right thing... While making profit.

Leftists want to solve the problem, no matter the cause. They don't support gay people because it's cheap, easy, and allows for profit; they do it because all people have inherent rights. They don't want to build all inclusive, hyper expensive, heavily monitored and limited access housing for the homeless, they just want to build homes and ensure those effected have food and water.

Liberals are not left wing. Socially they only hold a vague mirage of left wing ideals as long as it doesn't harm capitalism. Economically, they're as right wing as any conservative or fascist. Fun fact fascism has only ever sprung from liberals.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social -5 points 1 month ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_fascism

It has its up and downs as an accusation but ask Eastern Europe if they agree with the broad concept.

[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

None of the answers you've received are really correct.

Liberalism has a specific meaning in political science. Modern Liberals support market economies, strong individual rights, and the right to own private property (not personal property like your house, car, or toothbrush - private property means capital).

I'm going to use socialism as a proxy for Leftism broadly because Socialism + Anarchism is too broad. Socialism is a political philosophy characterized by public ownership of capital (aka the means of production). That is the primary thing that binds leftists together.

Leftists view Liberalism as an improvement over feudalism, the system that it replaced, but criticize Liberals for protecting the status quo of neoliberal capitalism and the injustices, inequities, and evils it has perpetuated (slavery, colonialism, white supremacy, patriarchy, labor exploitation, etc.). They also assert that any Social Democratic reforms Liberals champion are ineffectual at addressing the core problems of capitalism.

The reason that the leftists in the meme have guns is because Leftists have historically been violently opposed to fascism and have engaged in revolutions to overthrow feudal, liberal, and fascist regimes.

[–] Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Modern Liberals support market economies,

Only partly true. Liberals support capitalist markets, but not worker owned markets (worker co-ops, market socialism.)

[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago

Yeah that's a fair point

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Modern Liberals support market economies,

That's a very diplomatic way of saying liberals are pro-capitalism and pro-imperialism.

[–] anindefinitearticle@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

After the French Revolution, they arranged the seats in the legislature with the most progressive on the left, and the most conservative on the right.

This left-right axis is often still used in modern politics.

On the American politics version of this spectrum, "liberal" defines those in the center who are in the middle and who accept whatever they are given. Leftist progressives fight for a better future.

[–] AngryRobot@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Liberal plays by the established rules.

Leftist revolts and fights back.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Liberals die on their knees, leftists die standing.

[–] Sonicdemon86@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Liberal is the opposite of authoritarianism. Left politicies are less capitalism and more socialism. What America calls Liberal is more authoritative than what should be considered central party. Like in the political compass "Liberals" are middle middle top right, while "conservatives" are upper middle top right.

[–] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

To me, a leftist is someone who looks at the status quo and goes this is fucked up. We need to fix it.

A liberal looks at the status quo and goes "this isn't this bad." Think Bill Clinton or Tony Blair. Politicans who continued to maintain the status quo after their conservative predecessors.

If a leftist politician served after a conservative politician. The leftist politician would be like "fuck this" and upend the status quo.

[–] UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

What you are saying is only applicable for North America/ Europe. Liberalism is already the status quo there, which is why liberals defend it. However what is liberalism in the first place?

Liberalism: "Regulated capitalism is the least bad economic system. Also, the state shouldn't encroach upon the personal matters of an individual."

Leftists: "Capitalism is the cause of all problems. Fuck capitalism. The eventual goal should be to have a stateless, classless society. However, we disagree quite a lot on how to achieve this goal. This goal is called communism. Some of us say that we should do a violent revolution. Some of us believe that we can abolish capitalism using democratic processes. Some of us believe that to achieve communism, we need a temporary powerful state led by smart people, intellectuals, etc. to achieve material conditions necessary for communism. Some of us believe that the previous idea is absolute dog shit, and instead, we can achieve communism slowly, using non state actors like cooperatives, unions, syndicates and so on."

Conservatives: "Capitalism is good. The morals and traditions of our ancestors were better than the ones coming up now, and deviating from them would cause a lot of harm. We need to take steps to conserve these ideas."

Fascists: "All problems in society are because of group X. We need to get rid of group X by either converting them to our ways (if possible), deporting them from our borders, or cleansing our country of them entirely by killing them. Democracy is a slow and inefficient process. We should give power to a strong, smart leader who can get things done a lot more efficiently."

[–] Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

Sounds like conservatism in the US needs to be relabeled as regressivism.

[–] Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I thought liberalism literrally meant that personal freedoms are the most important thing to that person and the belief is the government should not restrict them and needs to actively protect them.

[–] UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That's one of their beliefs, sure. However, their economic beliefs are still kinda pro capitalism.

[–] Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago

Fair, I'm just curious why ShaggySnacks mentioned the status quo thing when personal freedoms are being encroached on and revoked.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

Not a visual learner eh.

[–] Doom@ttrpg.network -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No because a lot of it is bullshit people just drawing lines in the sand of an already silly way to plot political stances.

The truth is all liberals should be leftists. Politics leans left and right and people are broken down from there.

Currently people use the term "leftist" in too many ways but generally it suggests being against the system or capitalism. A liberal or liberalism is easy to Google but usually people mean it as left leaning folk who buy into the system, capitalism or neoliberal politics.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Just because you don't know what words mean doesn't mean no one does.

[–] Doom@ttrpg.network -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Lmfao it's literally in the names but okay.

A Liberal was a supporter of laise faire capitalism, currently a Liberal is more of a socially minded progressive. The term changed and will continue to change.

Leftist is literally a left leaning individual that's it. People use it a word to lump together a lot of groups especially those with a more socialist or anarchist sort of mindset. The term changed and will continue to change.

So no, they really don't mean anything exactly and people use them different and unclearly all the time. A liberal is a leftist, even if individuals out there reject that. Politically speaking you're either right or left leaning, are you thinking liberals are right leaning? No. Then they're leftists lol.

The worst thing for the socialist movement are other socialists. This probably can be said about any left leaning group. Everyone has to have a different title to differentiate their leftism from other leftists

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 0 points 1 month ago

Dumb people, lol

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works -2 points 1 month ago

I’m the good kind and those idiots are the bad kind.

[–] Quadhammer@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Leftists want full auto space communism.

Liberals want rights and liberties for all.

Both can overlap or not depending.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Liberals want rights and liberties for all except for the impoverished and repressed labour that makes liberalism possible.

FTFY.

[–] Quadhammer@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago

Neolibs maybe. Not typical libs