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'Foundation' Is Fixing The Trickiest Thing About the Asimov Books
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this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
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I'm sorry but the show has only the name of the books and has very little to do with them...
I'm ok with Salvor Hardin being a woman, I'm not ok with her being an action hero with guns while in the book the dude had a motto which was "violence is the last refuge of incompetents" and was a master of talking.
There's also the bit where we have at least two "universe's most special boy/girl" characters upon whom everything hinges repeatedly when the entire point kf the psycho-history concept is that major events like that happen one way or another regardless of the specific details.
But Hari Seldon is being very clear that those characters are wrecking his psychohistorical predictions by being like that. It's perfectly fine, IMO, for psychohistory to have not been as complete and omnipotent as Seldon initially thought it was. It'd be kind of annoying if it was, frankly. I prefer stories where the characters have agency and have to make efforts for things to turn out well.
That flaw turned out to be present in the books too, BTW. The Mule was the universe's most special boy in there, the show's just added two extra ones to the mix on the protagonist side.
Exactly. Anybody like the Mule absolutely wreaks havoc.
And he even account for situations like that with a backup plan.
The entire point is that he can predict the overall movement of mankind and with it be specific to some events and some times.
So any one person who everything hinges on just undoes the entire psychohistory.
On the flip side… in the end the books show that even if you’re as good as Hari Sheldon that the universe has a way to randomly throwing wrenches in the works.
Having a category of entity that wasn't considered in the base assumptions show up and throw a spanner in the works is consistentnwith the theme.
Having a singularity or error which needs correcting works.
Having the same people be the crux of every crisis is incredibly grating.
They also done my boy Daneel real dirty.
I haven’t seen it yet. Please tell me they didn’t do something stupid as if he doesn’t play a part in this and many other stories in the universe?
The character adapted from daneel plays a major role, but the characterisation is really bad.
I hated the Mule in the books. Wrecked the books from that point on in my opinion. But, loved everything in foundation before that.
Also, "the entirety of psychohistory and the Foundation hinges on us storming X place with guns and explosives in the next fifteen minutes!"
Ugh. Yuck. Hard pass. Go home, Goyer, you're drunk (on the aroma of your own emissions).
That is in the books too. It's called a "Seldon crisis", where the Foundation has only one possible way forward as means of keeping it close to the original plan.
But the Seldon Crises don't depend on the coin toss of whether or not they manage to infiltrate a stronghold and deactivate the thingamajig kajigger in the next fifteen minutes.
It's been a while since I've read them, but as I remember, the entire definition of a crisis is some moment that depends on a coin toss or some individual acting correctly. The books narrate exactly the moments where there can exist some heroes.
They are just calmer than the series.
Which would be fine if the magic pixie dream girl wasn't insufferable as hell and had a terrible actress.
The needed the mystery to follow Gaal without her being in the story, just a legend they searched the galaxy for.
You say that yet in reality, psychohistory dictates that they WILL be the universes most special people. They aren't mutually exclusive, they're patiently entwined. Not even getting into the latter books and how that shows the truth of it.
And yet, the Mule exists.
Honestly dude.. as someone who has read every single asimov book, and the entire foundation series and then read the entirety of the robot series, these books were my lord of the rings. The show is doing something different. I'm willing to wait and see how things go. I mean hari being an immortal consciousness and all is already completely different. I simply enjoy being in the world of the foundation at all.
The only real way I'll probably actually get to see something like the book in a non written way is as a 4x game a la crusader kings, or total war, or Stellaris. Heck or even as an RPG. I just don't think it's easily adaptable for TV or cinemas. For them attempting to do this and weaving in the foundations story is pretty commendable from my perspective and I hope they keep improving the story. Shame about Daneel olivaw.
There's Anacreon, though it's only very loosely based on the books.
I have entirely stopped comparing the show to the books because all it would do is frustrate me. Now I just think of it as it's own thing.
I can't do it. There's a very simple principle here that seems to escape most of hollywood lately: If you want to do something different, then call it something different! I mean at least change part of the name. Look at the first four Star Trek sequel series, they all had different names, and still were closer to the original than that crap that Abrams spewed out. Even The Orville is closer to Star Trek and it doesn't use any of the original names at all. The Gotham tv series doesn't even have the name "Batman" in it. I know they weren't allowed to but still, makes it far easier to take as its own thing. It's almost like they are trying to do it backwards, where the closer the name is to the original, the less it bears any resemblance to it.
I'm OK with salvor because she's an OK character. That red monk girl is really starting to grow on me.
I am very much NOT OK with anything having to do with Gaal, because she seems like a terrible character with a terrible actress.
Haven't seen last night but last week was great specifically because it had 0 Gaal.
Brother Constant is the most engaging character on the show now, and yeah Gaal's a bummer
Gaal: "I hate you, Hari, I don't trust you, you ruined my life, I'm locking you in this computer and not doing anything you say!"
Also Gaal: "Choke me harder, Daddy Seldon!"
Omfg I just spit out my coffee.
I don't believe those are quotes, the first one might be paraphrase, but I can't believe the second one is.
2x03, paraphrased, but surprisingly fitting.
Edit: my bad, think it's 2x02.
I'm not normally triggered by characters like that, but I realized I liked the 2nd half of s1 a lot more because she finally stfu.
Her voice is beyond grating, her reactions don't seem to match her environment, shes a genius/take charge woman who is always crying because shes helpless, and even beyond that she makes me want to stop watching and I don't know why I hate her so much.