this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2024
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As W. Labov has passed away, I came across a comment reposting this screenshotted request, along with the paper in question:

https://betsysneller.github.io/pdfs/Labov1966-Rabbit.pdf

The paper is quite a rollercoaster, ranging from describing of disturbingly racist ideas about native Hawaiian and Black children that some scientists still pushed at the time (1970!*), to Labov's own disarmingly cute and humane solution to the issue of testing children's language abilities.

Edit: *1970 - according to the article itself, which is apparently based on Labov's 1970 talk; however, the URL suggests that the article was published in 1966, which is contradictory. I'll try to find out where and when this was actually published...

Edit 2: It looks like it is from 1970, from Working Papers in Communication, vol. 1 (Honolulu: Pacific Speech Association). It is surprising that a recently published book also claims that it's from 1966, probably the authors got the file from the same URL with the wrong year.

Edit 3: The original Twitter thread: https://xcancel.com/betsysneller/status/1516848959284678656

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[–] Drusas@fedia.io 43 points 3 days ago (4 children)

This reminds me of my experience when I was entering kindergarten.

There was a basic test/interview to assess reading skills to determine whether a kid should be in the "this kid doesn't even know the alphabet" group or the "this kid can at least read a tiny bit" group. I was already a fluent reader (of books aimed at 5-year-olds, of course), but they tried to put me in the group that didn't even know the alphabet.

I was afraid to read because I found the test taker intimidating. Fortunately, my mother knew that I knew how to read and she insisted that I go into the other group.

[–] Aeao@lemmy.world 25 points 2 days ago (2 children)

My favorite ADHD moment as a child was my school insisting I could read because I could answer the questions about the book.

My mother took me home and demanded I read the book. I still couldn't answer the questions.

Frustrated she made me read the book out loud to her. I did so perfectly. Still couldn't answer the questions. I read just fine, I just had trouble paying attention. I read the entire book out loud while thinking entirely about something else.

[–] 0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think you left out the word "not" at least twice?

[–] Aeao@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I found the one time I left the word out. Where was the other? Edit: there it is. Like I said, ADHD, I tend to just skim read. It's lightning fast for me but it's hard to proof read that way

[–] Drusas@fedia.io 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

My step brother had a somewhat similar story but in reverse. He couldn't read, though. He memorized the words of the picture books. So he could go through them all beginning to end and answer questions about the stories, but if you opened to a random page, he had no idea.

[–] PrincessTardigrade@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I had that same problem as a kid because my mom read to us every night and I had all the books memorized. They realized I basically couldn't read along with severe test taking anxiety, so they nearly put me in special ed in first grade. Somehow I ended up in gifted ed by second grade

[–] Drusas@fedia.io 1 points 1 day ago

That's almost exactly what happened. Except my stepbrother did it intentionally. Not that he was trying to pass a test or anything. But he would intentionally request the same books over and over until he had memorized them.

because I found the test taker intimidating

Yeah honestly I'm pretty convinced that a large part of children's "ability" depends solely on who's testing them, and on how well they feel that day.

[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I actually tutored a kid to get her into kindergarten, lol. She was bright but her first language was Korean and she was shy about speaking in English, maybe also shy about white people. So we basically hung out and "read" picture books together, my role just being to give positive reactions to whatever she said. And she got in, so it worked I guess.

[–] Drusas@fedia.io 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm guessing this was a private kindergarten?

[–] antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I had a similar sort of experience myself (probably lots of people did) when I was at a psychiatric hospital, I was a kid, 15 or 16 or so. I had to solve some exams for what I guess was like two hours, and I was going crazy by the end, exhausted and losing focus. And based on that crap they were supposed to rate my cognitive abilites and emotional state. Thankfully I simply didn't return there, no consequences, but it's terrifying to think that some kids' futures and whole lives were determined by such bullshit, and even more, as the article shows, that it could act as quasiscientific legitimisation of racism.

I wonder at what point do people forget how they were as kids?

[–] Drusas@fedia.io 5 points 3 days ago

That's insane. Who in there right mind could think anybody would perform well in that sort of stressful situation?