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this post was submitted on 07 Feb 2025
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Please elaborate what the party leadership could've done differently to not alienate the other voting blocks mentioned.
They could have defended the lives of Palestinians and acknowledged that the genocide was happening.
It was Biden's press secretary and SOS who got up on a podium everyday and assured the press and those "other voters" that Israel wasn't doing anything wrong. They drew that line themselves, not anyone who was protesting the genocide.
How short is your memory?
Biden expressed disapproval multiple times.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-netanyahu-3591fb5f82b22cf8e5d1060fccaef115
https://www.axios.com/2024/10/17/biden-netanyahu-sinwar-gaza-war
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/13/biden-speaks-with-israels-netanyahu-urges-immediate-ceasefire-in-gaza
Whether intentional or not, you are spreading misinformation. The same kind that got Trump and Musk into the Oval Office. And people are upvoting you. Congrats.
This one is kinda funny to me because people interpret trump saying nearly the same words is evidence of his genocidal intent.
But none of those 'statements of disapproval' conveys the severity of their literal fucking war crimes and genocide, which would be a minimum (I would think) to convince a skeptical zionist voter that maybe some intervention is justified. Not to mention that Harris repeatedly refused to commit to withholding lethal aid every time she was asked during her candidacy.
And this is how trump got elected. Have some self awareness and knowledge of game theory.
He's literally spreading misinformation and I posted links to prove it.
And he's being upvoted and you're being downvoted. Which makes your comment even more poignant. Fucking internet man. Humans simply weren't ready for it.
Why do you criticize regular people about game theory and not the actual people crafting the strategy to win an election?
Because regular adults should be responsible enough to see through blatant manipulation by blatantly bad actors. And if they can't, that's no one else's fault but their own.
seems like the game theory applied didn't seem to work very well, maybe it's not our priors that need updating..::
I find arguments that the non-voters shouldn't be blamed for Trump because party leadership didn't properly encourage them to vote for Harris idiotic. Everyone has a duty to educate themselves about their vote. Shifting blame to the DNC is both patronizing and destructive. The DNC sucks.... You know who else sucks? people who didn't stand up against Trump. Those people are grown ass adults who actively helped a fascist by doing nothing but bitch.
A-Fucking-Men
These two sentences are in contradiction
Here, see if you can spot the double standard:
"The [voters] suck… You know who else sucks? [the DNC] who didn’t stand up against [Israel]. Those people are grown ass adults who actively helped a fascist by doing nothing but bitch."
I don't understand. You are quoting two different posts, then concluding that two different people with different viewpoints represents a "double standard"... That is also an idiotic take.
With that said, OPs comment asking what the DNC could have done isn't contradictory or hypocritical if you put it alongside my viewpoint. It simply illustrates that you will never make every voter happy on every plank of your platform. We are all different people with different goals. Democracy is about compromise and understanding that the only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. Certain non-voters attitude became "because neither side aligns with my very specific interest, I'm just not voting! That'll show the Dems that they can't win unless they support [insert political viewpoint here].". To go back to my elephant analogy, it's like those people saying "I'm going to starve because i can't eat the elephant in one bite!"
So for some people, their line in the sand is a humanitarian Gaza policy, which will likely require a strong military presence to enforce ceasefires and aid deployment. For others it's a distaste for overseas military actions, and any intent to increase American involvement in the middle east. One side is pissed off and won't vote if it looks like you are abandoning Palestinians. The other side is pissed off if you suggest increasing military operations in the region, even if it's to deescalate Israeli aggression. You can't please both.
So voters from both of these camps chose to sit on their vote because they couldn't get what they wanted... In exchange they helped someone that is likely destructive to both camps' larger interests, as well as their specific interests discussed above, get elected. That is their right and choice. Just like it's my right and choice to call them out for supporting fascism through inaction.
Looking at it that way, I'm not sure how you could say our viewpoints are contradictory.
Ok, now apply that criticism to those who (hypothetically) wouldn't have voted if Biden had stopped supplying military aid to Israel.
The Democrats created that block of voters by repeatedly lying about their knowledge of Israel's war crimes. Not only could they have done the right thing by withholding their offensive aid from Israel, they could have also not lied about it.
Democrats tried obscuring the scale of devastation in gaza with their own involvement, and then lost because they got caught and then doubled down. You can't treat your constituents with that much contempt and expect not to lose those voters, and then post-rationalize the lie by claiming that they would have lost more voters had they been honest and intervened.
You seem to think the election was more about punishing Biden for Gaza than preventing trump from destroying America.
Those were the only two choices. Period.
The thing that you don't want to admit here is that you chose trump. You in part made this current reality happen while we tried to prevent it.
Gaza will be gone and you will have literally helped trump do it by not voting Harris.
That fact will never change.
Bingo.
There were two and only two options. There is no reality in which there was another option.
Harris or Trump were going to be president and one expressed disapproval of what Israel was doing and the other straight up said they should finish the job.
Anyone who didn't vote or voted 3rd party, helped usher Donald Trump into the Oval Office and sealed Gaza's fate. They could have chosen to limit the amount of suffering, but they chose to take their ball and go home instead.
No, I don't. Elections allow citizens to participate in deciding their representation, and those candidates campaign for votes by convincing normal people that you will represent their interests.
I shouldn't have to cite the history of how that started for you to understand that's just how it's always worked, and if there was ever an implicit intent for every single person to vote in every election they would have (at least) made election days a holiday (since most polling places were a half-day's trip from land-owning patriarchs at the beginning).
This a-historical fantasy of elections being objective measures of the totality of a voting population's will is an absurd caricature of our democracy, and it's only purpose seems to be to shift the responsibility of candidates to advocate for their qualifications and onto voters, who are not obligated to make that choice when the candidate themselves has abdicated their own responsibility to justify their candidacy.
Gaza will be gone because democrats decided their relationship with a fascist ethnostate was more important than stopping a fascist from taking the executive office, and even your and my vote for Genocide Lite was made into a meaningless sacrifice because of it.