this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2025
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Fediverse
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A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).
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@atomicpoet @fediverse TBH I think a lot of people (including me) have a very sketchy idea of how the different bits of the Fediverse link together... I'm still a bit vague about how my #Mastodon and #Pixelfed accounts could work better together.
There's a lot of *assumed knowledge* about the #Fediverse ... and people don't want to ask 'stupid' questions because they don't want to 'look stupid'. There needs to be easily accessible and explicit step by step instructions *to get people started*.
Where could I find a group about #ux or #humancentredesign for example? Or #photography ?
@Coolmccool@mastodon.au @fediverse@lemmy.world The best way to explain #Pixelfed is that it’s an Instagram-like front-end for the Fediverse. But practically speaking, it’s Mastodon if pictures were a requirement on Mastodon. You interact with a Pixelfed account from Mastodon in much the same way you interact with another Mastodon account, or how you’re interacting with my Akkoma account right now. It really is just like email.
Regarding group topics, the best way to find them is to do a search on a place like lemmy.world or lemmy.ca. For example,
uiux@programming.devis one. And you can find the URL here:https://programming.dev/c/uiux
The best way to find groups is actually https://lemmyverse.net/communities . All individual servers are missing other communities due to de-feds or lack of federation. While I can't say numerically how comprehensive Lemmyverse is, it's a lot better than any instance I've tried.
@atomicpoet @fediverse @Coolmccool I think you're missing the point - it's not "what is PF/Masto/whatever", it's "how do they relate to each other, exactly, in a way I can understand & benefit from?" I've been in fedi for a few years & have, in fact, been asking the stupid questions, but I still don't quite understand either...
@jwcph @fediverse @Coolmccool The best way to understand the Fediverse is not as a collection of servers but instead as actors that implement activities.
You are an actor. A Lemmy community is an actor. A bot is an actor. An app is an actor.
All these things do certain activities. One activity is to like a post. Another activity is to repost.
And all these apps like Mastodon are just presenting these actors/activities in a certain format.
Hope that explains things.
@atomicpoet @fediverse @Coolmccool It doesn't, not even close. It's way too abstract, even for me - I absoutely guarantee you, nobody looking for an alternative to keeping up with friends on Insta or Facebook will be able to connect what you just said to that need / desire, let alone make a decision based on it.
@jwcph @fediverse @Coolmccool No, those concepts aren’t for everyday users. It’s for developers. For the same reason a homeowner doesn’t need to know the ins and out of architecture, an everyday user does not need to know about the architecture of the Fediverse.
Nevertheless, it’s how ActivityPub works—and I will go more in depth in a future thread for those who want to know.
@atomicpoet @fediverse @Coolmccool That's what I mean - I think you're missing the point. I don't think anyone is expecting every developer to also be able to explain the usefulness of the fediverse to casual users, but some of us do feel, I think, that there's a lack of fundamental recognition that developer explanations are beside the point as far as most regular people are concerned, which can cause the unwelcoming impression for non-devs that we hear people talk about fairly regularly.
@jwcph@helvede.net @fediverse@lemmy.world @Coolmccool@mastodon.au To be blunt, “it’s like email” is probably good enough for 95% of casual users in terms of an explanation for how the Fediverse works.
It’s all just email. Mastodon, Pixelfed, and Lemmy are really all just email.
But the moment you ask, “Well, actually, how does it all work? How is it possible to use Lemmy with Mastodon?”
The answer is: actors.
And maybe that is abstract, but I assure you that’s the practical reason you’re able to do it. Once you understand that the Fediverse is made up of actors/activities, a whole new world of possibilities opens up—even for regular users. It’s why you’re participating on Lemmy right now, even though it still looks like “Mastodon” to you.
Now I’m sorry that you may perceive this as “beside the point,” but people ask how it works and I’m telling you. However, if this is too abstract, remember: it’s all “email”.
@atomicpoet @fediverse @Coolmccool That's not what people are asking - they're asking "How does it work *for me*?".
"Like email or phones" again still only explains in the abstract, that you can connect with anyone in the same way as those things. It still doesn't explain how to use it or how it solves the things people would like to solve.
People are asking for a driver's license & you're telling them how a combustion engine turns gasoline into mechanical motion.
If you're a content creator:
If you're a content consumer:
A. Use whichever software, platform, server, community, service, and/or app you prefer
B. Follow the people you want to follow regardless of which software, platform, etc. they are on
C. You don't have to create-yet-another-account
Of course, for content creators, they prefer to use different platforms for specific purposes and features. So, they still will end up with multiple accounts. However, №2 and №3 still applies to them.
And for the content consumers, it won't matter, just follow all the other accounts of the content creator they like using one account.
That's how it works for most.
If we put it into context.
In #Instagram, many "influencers" report and ban followers who:
These "influencers" assume their followers are inactive, useless, or accounts meant for scamming and spamming them later. They don't care if your are a legitimate fan, even a donator, who created-yet-another-account just to follow them.
With the Fediverse, and any #OpenSocial / #OpenSocialWeb / #SocialWeb network for that matter, it solves that problem. "Influencers" can have silly criteria all they want without risking kicking out legitimate fans because their fans are more likely using an account regularly because it's their "main" account, not yet-another-account.
@atomicpoet @fediverse @Coolmccool @jwcph
@jwcph@helvede.net @fediverse@lemmy.world @Coolmccool@mastodon.au I've explained how to use it: you submit to a group from Mastodon by tagging. In fact, you're using it right now. Look at one of the accounts you're mentioning.
Did you not read the original post?
@atomicpoet @fediverse @Coolmccool Yes, I did - did you not read the rest of the thread? At no point did I say "explain it to me" & neither did Cool, your answer to whom I originally responded to - in fact, I said specifically that I don't expect you to explain it to laypeople if you're on the dev side. All I'm asking is for you - and just as importantly, other readers of this thread - to recognize the explanation gap, that we may become a welcoming place for everyone, not just developers.
I have literally zero interest in cross pollination between social media types.
They each have their own interfaces that work best for their communities and content types. You're always missing something trying to access one from another.
If you have zero interest in the fundamental architecture of the fediverse, why are you in this community? You're probably interacting with "cross pollination" way more than you realize.
I follow topics and have discussions on Lemmy, keep up with individuals and announcements on Mastodon, and look at cool photos on Pixelfed.
None of my accounts are following anything on other systems.
The reason I'm in this community is for discussions like this. We disagree on the nature of using he fundamental architecture of the Fediverse.
I think using Mastodon to engage in Lemmy discussions is extremely awkward without the threading to keep it all organized. Equally, Lemmy is designed specifically around following communities. Following individuals on Mastodon breaks the pattern of the feed. And good luck following either Mastodon accounts or Lemmy groups in Pixelfed.
However, having multiple decentralized servers within each system, is plenty of reason for the Fediverse to be better than a centralized platform. They don't Need to interoperate with each other.
@Steve @shnizmuffin I follow one Lemmy community through my Mastodon account because it is mainly a casual chatty daily thread group. It +is+ weird, and not ideal as it doesn't show images for some reason, but I still kindof like that way of reading. I've got a separate Lemmy account for a bunch of Lemmy communities, and that works better generally. But I do like that they interoperate to some degree.
I also follow a bunch of hashtags and like them too. I find it all brilliant tbh, and love that it exists and isn't controlled by fucking billionaires.
That sounds good.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to interoperate at all. Just that this kind of thing isn't, and never will be ideal. I'm pushing back on the idea, that one account for all the Fediverse is the best and greatest, that everyone should be striving for that goal.
It's a principal of reality. Trying to make something that can do everything, will mean it's not great at anything. Specialization is what allows society to grow to what it is. The Fediverse is no different.
For real. He replied to my Akkoma post, which tagged this Lemmy group. 😆
Which I would never respond to on Mastodon, as it's terrible for discussions.
Mastodon is terrible for topical discussions because people don’t use groups. But they can if they knew how to use them.
You may say the system was not designed for cross-pollination, but the fundamental system is not Mastodon, and it’s not Lemmy: it’s ActivityPub.
Now do all these apps implement ActivityPub imperfectly? Yes. But eventually, some app will get it right—ideally one that will let you choose your preferred UI/UX on the fly.
That would be cool. Might be useful. Not sure it's really possible.
Not only is it possible, there’s lots of Fediverse software that’s just designed to be a “dumb server” akin to Nginx. For example, appy:
https://appy.cat/
Now the reason this stuff hasn’t caught fire yet is because we’re just now moving away from “Fediverse = Mastodon”. So the idea of federation itself isn’t just a paradigm shift, it’s a complete system shock that disrupts our mental models for how social media is supposed to work.
That's entirely dependent on the interface switching, or some kind of universal interface. That's the part I have serous doubts about. Keep in mind you have to make a single interface that work better than all the others on their respective native systems. I'm not sure that's possible.
You don’t need to make a single interface, just a “meta-interface” that allows you to switch UIs on the fly.
That’s entirely doable within a client.