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New Explosive Roger Stone Video Dooms Donald Trump’s Main Legal Defense
(newrepublic.com)
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this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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If the Trump legal defense is that he believed he won the election and was investigating fraud, and this proves that they were planning to call fraud before the election happened, then that does disprove his legal defense.
Do you mean by "clickbait garbage" that the language is too inflammatory for you regardless of the article content?
Except weren't they were claiming that mail-in ballots were potentially fraudulent for months before the election? This video doesn't disprove anything if they claimed that ballots that had already been cast were illegal.
Not that I'm aware of, but if so, that would just bolster the case of now additional, ironclad video evidence of intentional foreplanned election interference and manipulation.
If their main defense is that the cries of election fraud were a result of a legitimate investigation but this video shows deliberate planning to cry fraud before the election even happened, that seems like a significant point against his legal defense, although the title is inflammatory and weird. Dooms?
That's the part that I don't think is a strong argument though. They were crying fraud long before the election, e.g., saying that mail-in ballots were illegal, claiming people were stuffing drop-off, etc. None of it was valid, but their argument was well established before election day.
There's a difference between vague inflammatory remarks about how people can manipulate mail-in ballots during campaign speeches versus a political consultant to Trump detailing how exactly they plan to interfere and manipulate the results of a fair election if it doesn't go their way.
Any member of a board of directors may give a speech about how stock values might be compromised by valuable information and would likely not be criminally liable for speculation, but if one board member informs the rest about his intention to disclose private company information to the public in order to sway the markets, that is a criminal insider trading conspiracy that all board members could be held criminally liable for.
Agreed. I'm just pointing out that people need to focus on the latter rather than the former.
Definitely
The media are getting a bit hung up on this. Trump's state of mind is entirely irrelevant. His actions are not.
They're not being prosecuted for stating that they believe fraud happened (or was happening). They're perfectly entitled to say that whether they truly believe it or not. What they're not entitled to do is bypass the courts, threaten officials, fraudulently access voting machines, fraudulently put forward fake electors, and so on. Stone is planning some of the illegal actions taken after the election here. This video is one of many pieces of evidence of an active conspiracy to subvert the election.
Ah ok. Thank you. I think I was getting stuck on the timing, which did not seem particularly relevant.
I think intent is important, and if you can prove that they knew it was not stolen it is gonna be devastating for their case because it shutdown the whole premise of the defense. It would be a critical failure of defense.
It really isn't relevant. They're not being prosecuted for saying untrue things, or things they believed to be false at the time. They're being prosecuted for conspiracy to overturn the election.
Intent is very important. The lying part makes it a conspiracy and very illegal, and you can open the indictment yourself to verify. There is a whole section about it on page 6 of the Columbia indictment.