this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2025
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for me, a good test of whether i own something or not is to see if your device forces you to update. I'm sure 90% people using computers understand the security implications of not updating and not rebooting, they just have work they need to do now and rebooting the computer would make it go away.
we really need to stop babying users. If they fuck their own system up, it's on them. give them warnings, sure. Give them heads up. but don't take it into your own hands to protect someone who doesn't want protecting.
I think you have far too much faith in the average user. The average user just uses their computer for email, social media, and YouTube. The average user panics when their Google Chrome shortcut disappears from their desktop, because they don’t know how to open it otherwise. The average user doesn’t even know what a botnet is, or why updating would help prevent them.
And the bigger problem is that a compromised device doesn’t only affect the compromised device. It can potentially spread to other devices on a network, steal info from anyone who interacts with the user, or become part of a botnet which is used in attacks elsewhere. Forcing the average user to update is like requiring vaccinations. We do it because it helps protect everyone; not just the one person who was inoculated.
If users cared about security or privacy, even in the slightest, they'd be using Linux. That's the other few percent. Ubuntu Livepatch solves any problem from automatic updates, I think Linux will eventually support this and then automatic updates by default. But on Windows? Not a chance.
You cannot live patch everything and also linux doesn't run everything
I mean, it’s the same situation as vaccine mandates. You’re hoping that it’s a perfect system of karma that reflects upon the user, but it’s not. Someone practices bad security or bad personal health, and it might not necessarily be them that suffers the most. (Botnet victims come in wide varieties)
I think owning your own device is a great ideology and I want to promote it however possible; I just don’t feel comfortable pushing that over general worldwide computer safety.
Then where do you draw the line?
Deranged. 9% is probably higher than reality. 0.9% maybe.
Also you're responding to a comment about widespread collective damage as though only a few individuals would be hurt.
Every single yearly security training at work talks about keeping devices up to date. We get quizzed on it. Every place i've been at has talked about keeping your device up to date. I'm talking since school up to my degree at university (~10 years).
if at this point people don't know that you should update, it's on them for being ignorant about it or on them for not doing so.
Story time. I used to work for an IT service for businesses. We also offered such basic security trainings (how to not get fished by mails, keeping workstations up to date, do not insert USB drives some stranger handed you, that stuff). We had one customer, big company, several branches all over the country, even some abroad. They booked our training once a year for each branch office in our local region, six offices and a couple dozen office workers attending each time.
We had to automate reboots. First, you get an information there's a necessary update pending that needed a reboot. You could push that reboot a week down, then it got enforced. We had several tickets each month about that. We also had to restore systems twice in the two and a half years I worked there from backups due to ransomware, and other, mostly minor security incidents about once a month.
firstly, you're assuming everyone works in an office.
then, that those lessons stick.
then, that malware only affects those who essentially opt into it.
All of these are beyond-stupid assumptions.
PS. not one security training I've had did more than just mention in passing updating your device, if even that. Because guess what, IT departments don't give a choice. They manage that and force-install updates.
Your other weak-ass assumption is that work lessons (if even applied at work) also come home.
Yeah dude, you're just wrong in your thinking. Top to bottom.
maybe this is a xkcd 2501 moment and if it is, it makes me feel very depressed that people can be this stupid
just looked that # up. Yes, it is. People are very stupid, but in this case it's more of 1) a case of needing to know. many people do not need to know how to maintain a computer; many don't even own a desktop these days and other systems do many auto-updates. and 2) again, these bad practices affect other people who do properly update their machine. We don't live in a vacuum.