this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2023
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Give me one real world example of where it isn’t used to oppress the working class
China, 1959-1961. Checkmate liberal
almost two whole years! that's almost 328 years more than capitalism!!
let's see what happens now.
China, 1961-2023. Checkmate Communist
This is all I could find about that time, it's a famine
It's always weird to me that people associate Dictatorial Command Economies with Communism. On one hand they like to label themselves as communist but on the other hand y'all really gotta learn to read between the lines. It's like saying socialism has failed buecase the Nazi's had socialism in their name.
This is just the No True Scotsman argument. Every communist nation has always insisted that the dictatorship is a necessary transitional state so that true communism could be achieved, and been run by parties espousing the need to achieve that communism. Those dictatorships have never truly moved towards that.
Either communism is impossible or communism is dictatorship. You can pick either one, but there's not another option.
Negative, the Nazis came for trade unionists first. Quite the opposite of what a socialist party would do.
While the bolshevists coopted the unions and turned them into agents of the Party, corrupting them from representative bodies into people spying on the working class for disloyalty
Buddy, I'm an Anarchist, I don't praise the Bolshevists. I have my critiques of them too but I'm not gonna sit here and say the Nazis were Socialists because they have "socialist" in their name. "Baby oil" doesn't actually have babies in it.
Then I can't argue against you, because it's impossible to argue against hypothetical utopianism.
I couldn't disagree more. How about we stop trying to run dictatorships all together? No one says we need to flip a light switch and suddenly make the world communist. But there are plenty of communist ideals we can try on under democratic systems. Really easy ones that come to mind are forcing companies to give all employees ownership and/or profit sharing. The world isn't black and white and history isn't an example of every possible path forward
Mandating profit sharing doesn't mean communism
Are you deliberately being dense? I'm talking about keeping within the spirit of the thing as a goal to strive toward
Okay? So what does that actually mean?
3 examoles i could give for socialism two of them where crushed by the Soviet Union. Revolutionary Spain and the free territory of Ukraine. One which works since 10 years (while trying not to get crushed by Turkey and IS) and there are some more such free territories which therefore also democratized thier economics. Also fuck tankies btw
Oh, you're a communist? Name every communism.
If you want a list of currently ongoing socialist and anarchist communities with de facto territorial sovereignty, the list goes
Rojava
The Zapatistas
If you want a list of all past socialist territories, the list is too long but the highlights are South Yemen and Anarchosyndicalist Catalonia