this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2023
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[–] Bnova@hexbear.net 51 points 1 year ago (31 children)

Democrats might suck as far their desire, willingness, and ability to implement actual leftist reforms, but they are not as purposefully cruel. Suffering is real, more suffering is worse than less suffering, and one party is openly sadist.

Republicans are obviously more cruel than Democrats and I'll even throw in that they're generally dumber as well. But I do think you're underselling just how dog shit and cruel Democrats are. We have somewhere between 50-90k people dying each year due to lacking healthcare in this country and Democrats have absolutely no desire to stop it. Nada, zilch, none, 200-360k people will have died in the US under Biden presidency that didn't have to.

Republicans are dumb antivaxers who don't understand science, but Democrats claim to, which makes their COVID response a cruel and disgusting genocide on those with disabilities.

whether I'll be prohibited from public areas because of my identity -- the other doesn't. But I guess you don't care about any of that.

I can't speak for the person you responded to, but I would assume that they care about trans rights and existence.

I do think two things are worth noting:

  1. Your and my votes generally do not matter because a single vote usually is not going to make a difference we could have every Hexbear user vote, even the non-American ones, and it would not move the needle.

  2. The attack on trans people is happening while Democrats are in power and rather than confronting it in any meaningful way they've equivocated about the complexity of childs sports.

If you think voting Democrat will make your revolution less likely or take longer, and you are willing to let harm happen to make it happen faster than you are an accelerationist - a morally tenuous position at best.

Capitalism is going to do what it does regardless of which party we vote for. This is because the contradictions are very apparent and neither party is capable of addressing them. Republicans will continue to scapegoat trans people and probably immigrants and Democrats will continue to be cowards while hogs shoot up schools and gay bars. And that's it. Nothing will be done about it.

[–] kool_newt@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Your and my votes generally do not matter because a single vote usually is not going to make a difference... (which seems to me to imply (in this case) don't bother voting, revolution is the only way to make things better)

I see this attitude a lot in the auth-left. Is this a general thing or only counts when talking about voting?

What about driving SUVs? I'm just one person, doesn't matter if I drive an SUV right? It's only one automobile. And promoting the concept that people shouldn't drive SUVs would be silly right?

What about consuming animal products? It wouldn't matter if people become vegan or not right?, the cow is already dead, the carbon emissions already emitted, and one person eating a hamburger won't make any difference, no sense in eating less meat or trying to promote eating less meat, it'd be no more useful than voting/promoting voting. The only solution would be to outlaw being non-vegan, and anyone who wants a burger deserves the wall right?

[–] Vncredleader@hexbear.net 43 points 1 year ago

There is no fucking "auth-left" get outta here with that liberal bs. Also real "you want to decolonize? wow so you want to shoot all white people" energy there

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago (40 children)

auth-left

Polcomp is a stupid meme that it is below you to believe in even as a liberal

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[–] D61@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

Bad examples.

The idea of voting is for collective action (maybe). If 51 % vote for something, the we all are supposed to do the thing.

It would be like, "If 51% of people went vegan, then 100% of the population would be required to be vegan. But since vegans are not 51% of the people, no concessions should be made towards their beliefs."

Honestly, the Republicans and conserva-Dems are doing that right now with an transphobic arguments along the line of, "Hey, trans people are such small portion of the population, wouldn't it be easier for them all to just, you know, not be trans?"

[–] iie@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I agree with everything but I think this is a weak line to use:

a single vote is not going to make a difference

it's true that leftists are too small in number to sway an election, but with that line you're just gonna get "what if everyone thought that way." You can see how the lib you were talking to latched onto that one line and ignored everything else.

more importantly, the whole purpose of denigrating voting is to get people to organize. As long as people organize, whether or not they also vote in national elections is of little consequence imo, as long as they have realistic expectations. If they think there's some marginal harm reduction, that's fine, as long as they don't pin all their hopes on some crisp, bloodless Democrat who'll let Citibank pick their cabinet like Obama did in 2008.

People need to understand that, even when the majority votes blue, their votes do not actually result in policy. We have to break the false sense of political agency that voting gives people. But the purpose is ultimately not to stop people from voting, but to make them start organizing.

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens (2014)

Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.

[...]

In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule — at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.

[–] Bnova@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I really like your point about voting not resulting in policy, I'd completely forgotten about that study and will be using it. But I'd like to clarify something:

a single vote is not going to make a difference

it's true that leftists are too small in number to sway an election

It doesn't matter if you're liberal or conservative or a leftist any single vote doesn't matter because single votes do not typically determine elections. Like you can be a liberal in a conservative area you'll be out voted or a liberal in a liberal area will likely have their candidate win by a significant margin meaning their vote didn't really matter either.

[–] iie@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

again, you'll just get "What if everyone thought that way."

but I agree it's worth pointing out that a lot of ballots are basically thrown in the trash, if you don't live in a swing area in this gerrymandered hell country.

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