this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
3340 points (100.0% liked)
196
16539 readers
2100 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Animals do kill each other a lot, does that mean that we are justified in copying this behaviour? The animals that kill eachother either have no means to survive otherwise or have no rational capabliity to deduce that its wrong, I cannot reason with a lion but I hope I can reason with you. As it happens lions also eat their young and forced intercourse is the norm in the animal kingdom, are we justified in copying these acts because it's "natural" to do so? Furthermore even if we were to conclude that carnivores/omnivores are morally culpable for their killings how does that justify us killing cows, pigs and chickens that did nothing to harm us The actions of non-humans in the circumstances of non-humans have no bearing on the actions of humans in the circumstances of a modern human
Ugh I deleted that comment by mistake while editing it.
Let me ask you: Does the world currently have the ability to live 100% vegan? I’m not asking “will it ever be 100%” I am asking “can the entire populace live vegan?”
There are also major issues with your linked arguments. It seems to like to skirt around things with half truths. “Eggs are immoral because we kill the chickens” ignores the fact that many people have egg chickens, intending to just let them live and produce. There is no rule that says once a chicken stops producing it needs to be killed.
I’m not doing a deep dive. But when you are the one asking the questions, of course you’re going to have all the answers.
no not everyone can eat a plant based diet, but they can still avoid other animal products and testing
Plants are also living creatures, aren't you just drawing the line a bit further, and acting like its the only true way?
Why is it ok to harvest, kill, eat plants and not animals?
I spent years fighting against veganism, and there was literally no valid argument against it beyond "I don't care, I'll eat animals anyway".
There's just nothing. Eating meat is bad for the planet, bad for the animals, and more often than not in western cultures bad for the human.
First of all I think that violence in self defense or survival is justified, plants have tropisms which means they have small hard coded responses to certain stimuli like leaning toward light, they do not have any form of sense processing thus no awareness no preference theyre an object
Even if you wanted to minimise the harm caused to plants, it takes far more plants to feed livestock to sustain an omnivorous diet
Debunking a myth: plant consciousness. Protoplasma 258, 459–476 https://doi.org/10.1007/s00709-020-01579-w
There is no scientific reason to assume that plants have the capability to suffer. And different scientists try again and again to look into that. But the cold hard truth is, to feel something you need a somewhat complex nervous centrum that plants simply don't have. The same is true for microorganisms and many other simple lifeforms, btw.
Pigs, cows, chickens, even fish experience pain, stress, fear, etc. very similar to how we experience it. And we people know that, that's why many countries have laws against animal cruelty.
If you're concerned about plants, that's a good reason for going vegan.
to "buy" a laying hen you are almost certainly going to be buying from a breeder that kills the male chicks