this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2023
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Both Ukraine and Palestine are fighting against an invading force. We can unanimously agree that Palestinians have have been illegally occupied in an open air prison/concentration camp for 75 years. And we seem to agree that Palestine cannot be a perfect victim and it is reasonable that they seek support in Hamas instead of their Israeli oppressors.

Now why can't the same logic be applied to Ukraine? There is absolutely a nazi problem in Ukraine. A nazi problem that needs to be wiped out. But Russia isnt trying to denazify Ukraine, they're trying to maintain borders and resist NATO. But while doing so they are indiscriminately killing civilians and are the aggressors.

Personally, I believe in what Norman Finkelstein has to say about Hezbollah and the red army. Both are not perfect, but I don't care about their politics. I care that they are a resisting force and believe a country should have the right to self determination.

So how are these situations diametrically opposed that you seem to be hostile towards Ukraine but supportive of Palestine?

I don't mean to come off as shaming or judgemental. I genuinely would like to hear your perspective.

Edit: I appreciate all of the thoughtful and patient responses. Even though I might not respond to everything here I am reading all of it. I was operating under a lack of information, which I've never seen any Western media source report on. Ever since leaving reddit, hexbear has been a great source of alternative perspectives and context. It's opened my eyes to a lot of how I've been misled by papers that I've trusted.

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[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There is no Israeli population endemic to Palestinian territories that Palestinians are repressing. There is no polarity in Palestinian society between favoring Israel and favoring other Arab countries. There are no Palestinians who speak Hebrew as a first language, or vote for pro-Israel parties, or have several generations of relatives who are full Israeli citizens.

The situation in Ukraine has all of these. It has a closely overlapping history with Russia that goes back hundreds of years, resulting in many people in Ukraine who have considered themselves more Russian than Ukrainian, who have most of their families on the Russian side of the border, who vote for regional or devolution parties, who speak Russian as a first language.

As we like to say, history didn't begin in 2022. It includes 2013-14, 1991, 1954, and 1922.

The invasion of Ukraine and the occupation of Palestine are not comparable except for in the vaguest, most remote, and least significant of terms. If you want an analog for Palestine, look at Artsakh.

Ukraine has a right to defend Ukrainians against aggression from Russia, but it does not have the right to take away its ethnically Russian citizens' rights to self-determination. If you use an argument like "internationally-recognized border", not only are you decontextualizing and prioritizing a coincidental line in the dirt over social trends, you are denying about 9 million people one of the most basic of political rights.