I don't understand this whole cluster munitions move. It doesn't look good for anyone involved. We should have just destroyed them and be done with it.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

America has a stockpile of weapons they cannot sell to anyone and can't really use anywhere, this is an opportunity to dispose of them in a relatively cheap manner.

[–] variaatio@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, but the part I don't get is Ukraine choosing to litter it's country side and eastern cities with un-exploded submunitions. It will be massive and nasty clean up operation after wards. everyone time cluster munitions have been used anywhere it leads to both friendly fire and civilian casualties from lingering UXO submunitions.

Like I absolutely get why USA is offering, what I don't get is Ukraine accepting instead of demanding different kind of munitions. Hopefully they stuck them in "last resort reserve, if all else runs out" and then after war they just blow them up in big pile in some artillery range.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Because

Better a mined countryside than losing the war and
The countryside is already full of mines and stuff anyway.

As to other munitions: First of all those aren't exactly plentiful, secondly you'd also have to have the necessary hardware to have a similar effect on the battlefield. You can hook up a couple of PzH 2000, say, seven, put ordinary rounds in their barrels and tell them to all shoot say 10 rounds a particular area all 70 impacting at the same time (so that noone can take cover), or you can use one cluster round with a couple of duds in it. Ukraine doesn't just have a couple of PzH 2000s standing idly around just waiting for an opportunity to imitate a much cheaper cluster round.

[–] startlefrenzy@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm not saying I agree with using these either but I heard on TV that the reason cluster munitions were being provided is because those are readily available and the weapons needed by Ukraine can't be met without them at this time.

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why the fuck not? Is 800 billion dollars somehow not enough money to fight off an army that's funded with less than a tenth of that?

[–] startlefrenzy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Money is one thing. The speed of production is another