I just want to point out how long this took, from an opposition leader, that is, one of Netanyahu's opponents. It took this long for one of the other guys who wants to be in charge, to ask for Netanyahu to step down.

I propose that this reflects the deep turmoil and pain within each Israeli citizen, persisting to this day in many cases. If you've never felt it, you don't know what it's like.

This is a very complicated situation, not some simple one that is easy to understand. If you think it's simple or easy, that is a strong indication someone has tried to brainwash you.

[–] sab@kbin.social 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The situation is complex, but one of the few things that are relatively simple is the matter of Netanyahu. He should have been in a prison cell rather than in office for a while now.

[–] Candelestine@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I agree.

A big concern of mine is people's feelings towards the Russo-Ukrainian War coloring their feelings towards the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Russo-Ukrainian has two clear sides in it, Russo, and Ukrainian. It's a pretty simple war.

The situation in Gaza has, for starters, four sides in it. The IDF/current Israeli government, HAMAS army, the Palestinian people, and the Israeli people. None of these four sides is really on the same side as any of the other three.

There's actually dozens more if we really start digging... It's just ... welcome to the Middle East. The Israeli people aren't a single faction for starters, that's fucking racist as fuck. They're a democracy with different parties that have different platforms. We elected Trump, they elected Netanyahu. Shit happens. Palestinian civilians aren't a monolith either, also racist as fuck. Saudis, Egyptians, Qatari, Turkish, Iranian governments, there's just so many interests, all out for themselves, mostly all on their own side, nobody else's. Sunnis, Shias, Christians, Jews, and that's just major categories. Each has its own sub-factions. Terrorist factions are active in the region. Humanitarian agencies are active in the region. Russia is active in the region. China is active in the region. USA? Of fucking course we're active in the region, these aircraft carriers aren't just for show. Who's side are we on again, I don't remember. I know who's sides Biden is on, but what about us? Have we figured it out yet?

Russo-Ukrainian, though? Two. Russia + allies. Ukraine + allies. Or you don't care, hope you're enjoying the cheap oil India. Simple. Easy.

Not the grandaddy of all clusterfucks on Earth for the past 50 years though. Worse clusterfuck than the most imaginative horror writer has ever conjured. The most extreme fiction does not get even half this bad. If it did, everyone who read it would fucking hate it and it'd vanish into obscurity.

/rant

edit to fix a wrong number

[–] Doorbook@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lets help you a bit.

You staying home governed by the Othmans.

UK appears with their navy and take over.

New people come in to the land an UK build them new homes, still some what okay.

The UK take villagers guns.

The new people have an organization called Irgun that start terrorizing people.

The Irgun bomb the hotels and areas where UK officials staying. UK consoder them terrorist group but do nothing.

These miltant new comer start killing people in villages.

New country anounce with no defined border.

Some people start fighting back this new government.

Labeled anti-semtisim, UK and US gave new governmentore money more gun, villagers lose.

Arab countries come in, USA help new government and they also lose.

More villgers died and keep dying.

More kids died and keep dying.

More olive trees get taken down and people lose their farms and lands.

Yes, it is very clear two sided issues if you see it. It is not Jew vs Muslims, or Jew vs Arab, or Undemocratic vs Democratic, or Human vs Animal.

It is two sided, a colonization supported by the USA Imperialist and motivated by greed power and money vs indigenous people of the land.

[+] Candelestine@lemmy.world -10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, this whole thing you just provided, is only a small part of the story. The parts you like.

Speak of Arab crimes too. Can you not?

[–] sab@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It bothers me more than it should that people think the fucking Israel Palestine conflict is somehow even remotely simple. This shit goes back thousands of years, it didn't start in 1947 no matter how much the British fucked up and made everything worse.

These morons will proclaim that this is a genocide in one sentence, and shout death to Israel in the next.

If you truly care about genocides it shouldn't be too difficult to see the problem here.

It makes me almost miss a few weeks ago when I was being called an antisemite any time I wrote anything critical of Israel online. These days I apparently don't care enough because I don't believe in answering one genocide with another one.

That said, the Israelis did repeatedly vote for their genocidal leaders. Anything they've thought about the people of Germany throughout the decades should be coming right back at them.

[–] Candelestine@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Contrary to what any anti-Semitic position would have people believe, the Israelis actually do not have a strong propaganda arm. Their propaganda is weak as fuck, it strongly resembles ours during the GWB era. Anyone who remembers Colin Powell dangling a vial of anthrax at the UN should recognize it pretty well.

It'd old people propaganda.

HAMAS, however, has Q-anon on their side. They have Iranian proxies on their side. They have Russia on their side. Their propaganda is slick, their vids look like an FPS game. They use memes.

I think we're just seeing them hook the latest generation of vulnerable young people that just entered the adult conversation space in the past couple years. They don't know. It provides bulk though, sheer numbers of voices.

But there's a reason they don't type well.

[–] sab@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This I am not so sure. We are talking about a country that managed to develop nuclear weapons in secrecy, and whose secret service is known for killing off people all around the world. It would be surprising to say the least if they didn't participate in information warfare at all.

That said, American evangelical Christians seem happy to act as their disinformation footsoldiers free of charge...

[–] Candelestine@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

I never claimed they did not have one, that actually directly contradicts what I said in my comment.

I said they fucking suck at it, as in, are of very low skill and quality at performing the related tasks. Looking at their performance recently, would you say Mossad currently is functioning very well, and Israel is regularly getting all the intelligence it needs?

Additionally, Israel's nuke program was very likely developed in partnership with other countries. It's also not like it was some triumph for Mossad or something, giving them primary credit seems a little odd to me. Did the CIA deserve credit for the Manhattan Project?

Re-read what I said, and please pay attention to what I actually say, and let me know what you really think.