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U.S., Israel and Hamas reach tentative deal to pause conflict and free dozens of hostages
(www.washingtonpost.com)
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this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2023
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Being ignorant of the facts doesn't change them.
Israel colonized and displaced the indigenous population 75+ years ago and have been doing the genocide thing ever since.
I agree it's not a conflict at all but a genocide.
If you're going to quote history, try quoting all of it not just the parts that suit your story.
Israel after the war had a significant interest in controlling access to the golan heights which was the pass used by those armies and passage was allowed by Palestine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
I don't know about you but if my neighbor is allowing people to walk into my yard and start a fight with me, I'm going to have a problem and want to have a controlled access solution.
And no, I'm not interested in further conversations with you specifically because I don't believe you're making good faith arguments. I believe that you're jumping on to at best a "fuck Israel" bandwagon and at worst a "fuck Jews" bandwagon that's all too common these days.
If anyone else is interested in discussing we can start with my stance, I am a Jew and I abhore the actions being taken in Israel and Palestine today. I wish for a peaceful resolution of the conflict and a solution that allows for a lasting peace where neither country is concerned with land based invasions.
That says nothing of the displacement of the people there.
I'm a Jew as well but very far from a Zionist. Fuck Israel indeed. My ancestors weep at what Zionists are doing and trying to associate that with "Jewishness".
I'll definitely agree with your term as well, it's a genocide.
Two wrongs don't make a right... ☹️
Two wrongs are almost never equivalent.
Also you're incorrect. Suicide is a wrong. Hitler was a wrong. But that turned out ok.
Suicide is not wrong.
And it should be a right.
Suicide should be a right. It's wrong that any consciousness should be in a situation where it's even a consideration.
I agree. Makes little sense.
Some British folks colonized and displaced the Native Americans over 200 years ago. I'm partly Native American myself, but am I all butthurt about it? Nothing I can or even should do about it.
Yes it sucks, but things that happened decades or even centuries before I was born ain't my problem. All they're doing is dragging on more and more death and destruction, and that ain't right, I don't care how anyone looks at it.
Are you annoyed at how native Americans are treated today?
I wouldn't describe it as annoyed, more like disappointed and sad.
I'm not enough percentage Native American to qualify for their 'benefits' of living on reservations. I'm only like 23% or so, gotta be 25% or higher Native American to qualify for whatever bullshit benefits they get.
And yes I do occasionally keep up with what's going on with all that, and honestly it really has been disappointing. They never cared about the Native Americans in the first place, and that's a very sad situation itself.
I'm a peaceful person. Even if I have angry or upset words, I'm not about to go to war with anyone or any country, unless it's in self defense.
Otherwise I would be just as evil as the enemy. Gotta be better than that yo.
At the time, they were pissed they were kicked out of the land, and I'm sure some old people still are (there are people old enough to be able to look at their family house they were kicked out of).
But now, I'm sure most of them are passed about what's happening now, that they get the bare minimum of calories, that they are always surveilled by drones to the point that they can't sleep from their droning, that their trash piles up as it's controlled by the Israelis, they can't leave their waters or travel to other places, most of their water is poisoned, most of their family was killed by IDF, etc.
Uh Palestinians are not fucking indigenous.
Palestine only became an idea after the Muslim conquest of the levant in the late 600s CE, when the Arabs went on their own genocide across the entire Middle East conquering everything and raping and killing everyone in sight.
If you want to talk about indigenous, then you’d have to go back to the Israelites around 3200 years ago, or the Philistines before them.
I mean it's the fertile crescent. It's been likely that it's been being recolonized for hundreds of thousands of years. Not really any other landroutes out of Africa.
Which means that nobody there is indigenous. The actual indigenous peoples have been genocided over millennia.
Or that many groups have indigenous claims to the area.
For example, pacific islanders didnt' get to many islands till the 900-1100 time period. We'd still call them indigenous peoples of those places.
More than one thing can be true at the same time.
We call them indigenous because they were the first ones there…
Palestinians were not. They killed the people who were there and took it.
I think they still qualify as having an indigenous claim.
Indigenous people having rights is a rather modern concept in terms of human history.
"Like in other 'Arabized' Arab nations, the Arab identity of Palestinians, largely based on linguistic and cultural affiliation, is independent of the existence of any actual Arabian origins."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians
Please realize there are lots of Palestinian Christians. They identify as Palestinians.
TL;DR Palestinian lineage doesn't come from Saudi Arabia.
Umm, hate to break it to you but the actual word Palestinian is derived from the Hebrew word for Philistines. You couldn't be more wrong in everything that you wrote.
Both Jews and Arabs from that area share a common ancestry (as proven by DNA testing).
And the Jews were there first. Before the Arab Muslims genocided them. Of course they share common DNA, the Muslims raped every woman from birth to the grave there.
The Jews and the Palestinians are both Semites and share a common ancestry. The Palestinians have also been there for centuries now. They are the defacto indigenous population there at this moment.
Indigenous does not just mean “there for a long time”. White people have been in North America for centuries now but nobody is gonna say they’re indigenous.
And yes, Muslims and Jews both trace their ancestry to the biblical Abraham. The split was when Abraham banished Hagar and Ishmael and they went to the desert in Arabia.
Also Semitic just means a language group.
If people who are genetically predisposed to living in the area aren't indigenous then the European Jews in Israel with some of the highest rates of skin cancer aren't either.
No one is indigenous to anywhere by your logic since we evolved from a species before us.
Either that or one place in Africa where the first homo sapiens came from are the only indigenous people in the world.