Don't forget, they alleged racism, not just any discrimination. They equated Islam with a race. I wonder what skin color they assume all muslims have.

[–] LostWon@lemmy.ca 17 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Islamophobia is a type of racism. Brown people who aren't even muslim (like Sikhs) often get caught up in it, precisely because the ignorance that fuels it is based in racism.

So we argue that “Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/15/islamophobia-racism-definition-free-speech-theresa-may

[+] gregorum@lemm.ee -7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Only if you open up the definition of “racism” to include any type of discrimination. While you raise a good point that religious discrimination against Muslims often results is racist discrimination against both middle-eastern and south asian peoples (sometimes both), the overlap in the type of discrimination should result in more education, not a muddling of terms— although it is understandable.

And, yes, while we should be more focused on the effects of these discriminatory behaviors and combating them, one type of ignorance shouldn’t excuse another.

IMO, I don’t think it’s helpful to enable these ignorances by enabling them by furthering their use. The terms “racism” and “religious intolerance” have distinct and discrete definitions.

edit: grammar and spelling

[–] LostWon@lemmy.ca 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

The reason it seems "muddled" to you is likely because bigotry itself is based in ignorance.

Many people just accept and absorb what they've heard or seen in cartoons and popular media while growing up, lumping different groups of people together based on oversimplifications and misrepresentations of who they are. The assumptions on which people base their Islamophobia are quite racist, conflating Arab identity (which people think they know by a person's appearance based on racist stereotypes) with Islam. The point is to be able to identify the bigotry for what it is.

If you try to define a form bigotry by the actual reality it's misrepresenting, you'll miss the bigotry itself.

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee -3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I’m acknowledging that bigotry is based on ignorance. That was my whole point, which you artlessly missed. I’m just not trying to enable that ignorance by playing into it. So, instead of using that as a cudgel against an ally like me who is just trying to clarify a couple of distinct terms, maybe focus your rage on those who would actually do you harm.

Needlessly attacking your friends is a pretty silly way to behave.

[–] LostWon@lemmy.ca 2 points 9 months ago

All I did was point out facts and perspectives you seem to have missed. I thought we were having a constructive conversation in good faith, and was giving you the benefit of the doubt. I'm sorry to see that wasn't the case.

[–] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 5 points 9 months ago

Yep. Some problems do indeed intersect sometimes and can as well occur separately: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_Muslims_in_independent_India

It's worth looking at these sorts of problems from different angles.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I don't think that's a quibble worth discussing. Bigots aren't that granular. Their reasoning is not that specific.

[–] Lemjukes@lemm.ee 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Bigots aren’t that smart ftfw

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

Bigots can be smart. Don't underestimate your opponent. Being ignorant and feigning ignorance for political power are two different versions of bigotry.