this post was submitted on 14 Feb 2024
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It's really sad and I see why people blame the police for arresting these folks who are already struggling. But, to be fair, the police aren't acting independently; they are told exactly what to do and who to arrest by people much higher up.
I've seen it here with out Trax train system, homeless people getting harassed by the patrolmen who come along to see if you really bought a ticket or not. And it really is heartbreaking, I just want to say "let me pay for them" but it isn't allowed.
Obviously when this kind of thing is out of control, there's a system problem not just a people problem. I don't know why we can't make mass transit easier for people who are already having difficulties most of us can't even comprehend.
The fact it isn't allowed for you as a free person with resources to help somebody else without resources is morally abhorrent.
I agree totally. It's morally repugnant to me and yet it's the reality where I live. Here in Utah, they are constantly harassing homeless people, but it isn't because police (some of who I know) are wanting to do it - the governor here has made it clear that homeless people are to be treated like garbage, and when it comes to transit fare, they must be arrested if they ride without a ticket (although I'd be happy to buy them a ticket anytime, but that isn't legal to buy them a fare here in Utah).
As a foreigner with no clue of US law, I cannot believe this would hold up in court. Who’s to prevent you from giving a gift to a person of your choice? If corporations can donate unlimited money to election campaigns and call it an expression of their fReEdOM Of SpEeCh, how is it not freedom of speech to buy someone a ticket?
There's some confusion of order going on. In no state would it be illegal to buy someone else a ticket. However, if someone is being fined/arrested for riding without a fare, the crime(whether it should be considered that or not), has already been committed. Even if they could afford to buy a ticket themselves, making that purchase after the fact won't prevent the fine/arrest. So someone stepping in and offering to purchase a ticket doesn't change the outcome either.
This seems more probable, thanks.
Well you're right, once the crime (even if it is fairly petty) has been committed, there's no way to step in and purchase the ticket after the fact, it's just that it was sad to see how unsympathetic the patrol people were to her plight. If my family had not purchased a ticket, I still feel like we still would have been treated better than they treated her, they were pretty rough with her and she was already in a lot of distress. There has just got to be a better way.
There's definitely something wrong with how metro police and police in general profile people and treat some as less than human.
I just wanted to clarify the specific point about paying for another person not being illegal.
I probably should have added that panhandling and loitering are illegal in some areas. So buying tickets for strangers wouldn't be illegal anywhere, but hanging around and asking strangers to buy you a ticket can be considered illegal.
Also, cops aren't required to be honest/informed on the letter of the law. So there's no guarantee a cop wouldn't tell someone something false about whether helping a stranger is allowed.
That is true in some cases, as in any field there are always bad actors, police are not above being temperamental. I know that I could never do that job, because I'm quick to anger and not very sympathetic when someone gets in my way.
But to be fair, this poor lady, she didn't ask anyone to buy her a ticket (that I'm aware), she was just caught using the trax train without one. And that is illegal, i get that, no matter who you are. But she was so stressed out, bawling her eyes out and asking for help. I just wanted to offer help but the police were standoffish and took her away.
If she had approached us before she boarded and asked if we could help buy a ticket, we certainly would have. I'd rather spend a little to help someone that watch them being treated like a sick animal with no value. That was a very sad day for me.
Well as an example, my family and I were riding a Trax train (which is really a nice public transit system) and when we got off, there was a homeless person being pulled off by the police, and she was in tears and obviously very tired and didn't have a ticket.
I offered to buy it for her, I said, "whatever fare she owes, we can certainly pay it." But the officer said "No you can't do that under the law, she is required to buy it herself." But - how CAN she buy it herself in that situation? And why make the poor women feel even worse about herself.
It just made me angry, but Utah is a very restrictive place with a very authoritarian right-wing government, and there is no recourse for fighting back here. I don't blame the police, they know their jobs are on the line also.
You should absolutely blame the police, because they had every opportunity to choose a career other than being an oppressor.
Not even just that, in the situation above the cops seem to have had multiple chances to show some compassion and empathy. I highly doubt it's actually against the law for you to buy someone else a ticket. Do your kids have to work to earn the money to buy their own ticket to ride with you?
What if you just slipped them some dollars. Or just - say "hey you, here's that 20 I owe you from last week".
Well I don't see police as oppressors, except in cases where they unfairly hurt someone. And that's not the rule, that's really the exception despite what the media would have you believe. If you've ever worked or had family who worked in policing, you'd see why i say that.
You actually believe the solution is that there are no police officers? And that would help poor people?
That's not even slightly what I wrote.
Cops are the least efficient, most useless tax-payer funded job in the country. Statistically speaking, no cops is a better solution. Unsolved violent crime rate would remain the same, but the funds could be reallocated to mental health crisis centers and drug rehabilitation programs to more effectively treat the root of the issue.
Seriously, before you try to defend cops, look at crime statistics across the U.S. Look not just at solved rates, but successful convictions. They're abysmal, worse than any other developed country.