It should also be mentioned that "talent" doesn't exist. Anyone that is good at something has put a ton of time and effort into practice. You're not born with skills, you refine them. Doesn't matter if you're an insanely skilled artist of some kind or if you're a darkness-dwelling, aurora-ignoring retro game speed runner, if you're good at something its because you earned that skill through countless hours of practice.

[–] dudinax@programming.dev 4 points 7 months ago

Talent definitely exists.

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

nuh-UH. Nope.

Talent ≠ practice ; talent + practice = greatness

Thankfully it's usually quite easy to dispel this myth by saying "then why are you bad at maths". We all had the same number of hours in maths class as kids, but some had to practice WAY MORE to achieve a passable grade.

Most people can't be Mozart. Some dedicate their lives to music, and do not get a fraction of the way there.

"Talent doesn't exist" is a lie we tell ourselves as a society because our individualist culture sells us a pipe dream of personal greatness that many/most people literally aren't equipped to achieve no matter how hard they try (and we should try regardless).

[–] AstralPath@lemmy.ca 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You think we all had the same amount of hours in math class as a kid but you conveniently ignore variables like focus, interest and after hours practice, among others I can't think of I'm sure.

If you took guitar class with me back in high school and only practiced during class and for assigned homework, I'm absolutely smoking you right out of the gate because I'm also spending 3hrs minimum every night practicing for fun. Double that on most weekends.

Its all about the time you put into the skill. If you are engaged with practicing a particular skill because you genuinely enjoy it, you're going to have a much easier time than someone who struggles to enjoy it. Math class is the perfect example. Many kids loathe math class while others love it. The kids that love it are gonna engage with it with more focus both in-class and at home. That practice and study directly translates to proficiency.

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Nah, I hate maths and never studied at home. Still did way better than kids with difficulties that were studying way more.
Not studying didn't pay off in higher education (focus issues, possibly undiagnosed ADHD or related), because talent ALONE is not enough anymore, but before then I had an objectively easier time than most and that was with little time or interest devoted to it.

We ALL use the concept of "left" and "right" daily. I've been doing that instinctively without a problem since I was, like, 8. Some adults still need to use a mnemonic every single time. Is that because they don't have enough interest or didn't spend as much time on it as 8 yo me did? Of course not.

I have put hundreds of hours into one of my hobbies, digital photography. I really like it. I have watched and read plenty of theory and know most of what there is to know about what makes a good picture. My photographs are only halfway decent and nowhere near what they should be given my time investment. And that's OK, because I know it's not because of anything I did and I like the hobby anyway.

Your argument does not have a leg to stand on. Someone with music agnosia cannot learn to play the guitar like you do. Dyslexics cannot "just study like I did" their way into being good at mental arithmetic. Pretending that skill is ONLY a function of time and drive is extremely pretentious and factually incorrect. It's the "you're depressed? Just do like me, think happy thoughts" of education.

[–] AstralPath@lemmy.ca 1 points 7 months ago

I never mentioned anything about disadvantages because it should be self evident that if you are at a disadvantage for X reason you're gonna have a bad time.

I myself have essential tremor. My muscles shake significantly when they are engaged. Trust me I know what its like to dig out of a hole when almost everyone else is standing on level ground to begin with.

Talent implies that people are born already being multiple chapters ahead of their peers in their skill refinement story. That's just simply not true and believing that does nothing but perpetuate "woe is me" attitudes.

Practice is what digs you out of the hole. Someone could have all the supposed talent in the world but if they don't practice and learn they won't be able to keep up. Practice is all that matters.

I bet your photography is a lot better than you give yourself credit for. Everyone is their own harshest critic. You might be sitting on photos that some people would think are gold. I hope you're sharing them even if you think they're not so hot.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Talent might be practice because you used the same part of your brain on other aspects of life.

For example, if you gamed early in life, this "practice" may contribute to you being good with your brain, which makes you "talented" in math.

Playing with dolls in early life may lead to being more creative, and this being more talented in drawing.

The practicing begins the moment you start interacting with the world.

Or something along those lines.

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 months ago

Now you're just reaching at straws to comfort your worldview. I could explain to you that I never was a huge gamer (and only started spending significant time gaming around 12 y/o), and that I am hugely uncreative (in the traditional sense at least) despite having played with dolls as a child. But I get the feeling that you'll just come up with more explanations why I somehow unconsciously "trained" the things I'm naturally good at.

Anything to avoid facing the fact that brains, like bodies, aren't all created equal and identical. To pretend they are is completely ridiculous. Yet we do so because admitting that not everyone is born with equal potential breaks through the veil of The Meritocracy™, Karma™ and all the other little lies we tell ourselves to avoid facing the fact that the world is fundamentally unjust.

[–] rivvvver@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 7 months ago

yes thisss i wanted to say this. if theres something u really really wanna do but dont have a talent for it, learn it, practice, get better and u can do it. applies to virtually anything