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The exact same thinking can be applied to the other side though. Guy says it's not an imminent threat, so we don't have to do anything right now. Worry about it next year. Which is arguably what's been happening for a long time now
His whole point is that we should try not to think that way. Not "this side" versus "the other side". There's an endless space between "we're already fucked no matter what" and "everything is perfectly fine no need to act". And that's the point.
And you can very much notice what he worries about already. People are already utterly numb to news about climate disasters. We need a better way to show issues and showcase solutions that makes people motivated and hopeful to keep everyone pulling in the same direction.
Yeah exactly, you can already see a "welp we're fucked, no point in anything" opinion that's becoming more pervasive.
A good question is if not wanting kids because of climate change falls into this nihilistic thinking or if it's reasonable. Certainly, life will get more difficult. We have more stake in changing the future however if there's young people we care about.
I'm just rambling now. I think regardless of all else, the point is that things are not irreversibly fucked, and we should do what we can to unfuck it.
Dr Nihilism here, my older teen questioned whether it’s really a good idea to bring kids into tho world, so I hit him with the population implosion coming right after climate catastrophe, population going beyond sustainability before plateauing, mass die-offs …. Don’t test me before coffee
I can agree with that
What we need is politicians to fucking listen to their citizens who want them take real action on climate change.
What we personally think means jack shit if the capitalists in charge don’t want to hear it.
Maybe liberal democracy isn't so democratic.
Politicians absolutely listen. They mirror the desires of their constituents.
You won't see a situation where politicians take action on climate change if their constituents do not support such action, full stop.
yeah gerrymandering and attacks on voting would like to have a word with you.
you want politicians to listen, you make them listen. Power corrupts absolutely, if you want people in power to listen, you make them listen. It's time politicians become afraid of the workers again, from either loss of revenue or other things.
I am a literal climate lobbyist. Politicians listen to their constituents, full stop.
We need something like the doomsday clock but with the degrees C change forecast based on current emissions and efforts.
We have this:
https://climateclock.world/
But I think it would be useful to have the current trajectory (in degrees C) along with a table showing the consequences of each 0.5 to 1C
The thing is the Doomsday Clock is for something that may happen any time, and in only minutes
The climate crisis is longer term than people seem to grasp. There is no instant fix, nor instant apocalypse: it’s slow moving and long term. I just looked this up to fact check myself: CO2 stays in the atmosphere for 300-1,000 years. That’s right, we already locked in at least 300 years of climate change, and we continue to make it worse.
Even with the anomalous weather we’ve been having around the globe this year, I think people don’t grasp how long term an issue this is, and how that’s the core of the problem. How do we get people who expect next years weather to be different to understand enough of the problem to help?
Well, do you want companies to spin "Eh not a big threat right?" or "Look at these crazy guys"
I think it's harder to win attention if people think you're wearing tinfoil.
I'd prefer to stop trying to win over unwinnable people. Whether they join or not, the problem exists. Climate change doesn't care that we may want to placate the more dense-skulled in society. The problem marches on whether they have changed sides or not.
The science is in, has been in, and continues to be in.
However the science is not in on what would sway those unwinnable people and where we hit the tradeoff of hitting the alarm enough to win over a few more vs overwhelming and numbing the very people we need.
I find it interesting (in a dark way) that he thinks we’ve reached this point. I have to admit I’ve mostly dismissed a lot of the complaints as mere internet kvetching. Nope, that’s real too
I don't think there is such a thing as “unwinnable people”. They're unwinnable from a single conversation with a single person, sure. But they're not unwinnable if the currently ongoing concerted effort by climate-denying mass media were instead directed towards delivering climate science.
Tldr: the problem isn't the people who are brainwashed, the problem is the people doing the brainwashing.
Millions of people think Kennedy is still alive and running the deep state with Trump as his appointed and anointed by god successor to the kingdom of America and Heaven.
There are absolutely unwinnable people
I disagree. I recently saw a video of someone saying "if the Bible said 1+1 is 3, I'd be finding ways to make the math work so that 1+1=3." How is anyone supposed to have discussions with someone who's views subsist in that mindset?
There are absolutely unwinnable people, to me. Additionally, they may be winnable, but we're on a clock, and we can't wait until it's done to decide to leave them behind.
I do agree that there are factors larger than them causing the issue, and that needs dealt with as well.
I keep trying to remember how we won the great lightbulb war, as a possible parallel. There were so many people getting so emotional about more efficient lighting, there was culture war, there were people vowing to hoard cases of incandescent lightbulbs, there were actually people threatening to take up arms against anyone restricting their right to “traditional” lightbulbs. It really sounded about the same as those refusing to help fight climate change. Then the war was over, LEDs are expected now, but I don’t know how. It seemed to fade away.
Maybe it was improving prices and technology, or maybe it was just familiarity once the newer technology reached some critical threshold of adoption, I don’t know. I was hoping to pull a lesson from it but I have nothing
I think if you consider that group unwinnable, you should move on to whatever the next step is in your mind. I think anyone who would join from that already has.
It just doesn't sound like you have any desire to win over anyone else anyway.
I have no desire to continue trying to win over those people. There are absolutely still people to discuss these matters with. But we can't abide by the lowest common denominator.
Where did he say it's not an imminent threat? All he's saying is that it's not extinction level and the worst outcomes are not yet inevitable, which are both true statements. I do actually see a lot of climate apathy around and focusing on solutions and policy rather than doomerism seems like a good thing to me.
Also shout out Climate Town on YouTube for good solutions-focused and entertaining climate videos!
You're not wrong, I think I had some misconstruing of the point of his statements.
I think the apathy has started popping up because the onus is being placed on the individual at multiple levels. It's on me to change my habits to the level of environmental conscientiousness which I'm trying to reach; LEDs, efficient appliances, electric vehicle (arguable at this point), recycling efforts across many spectrums, supporting public policy that encourages green practices, etc. But even as a population, that doesn't effect much change when considering corporate practices. Surface level changes to some operations to take advantage of rebates or subsidies, but only so far as it's deemed profitable. Manufacturing and material acquisition still being "dirty", use of international labor to sidestep stricter policies, general obfuscation tactics, lobbyists and generally vast amounts of money actively seeking to stop or reverse policies.
I as an individual can enact much change in my life and those around me. But it falls well short of what a single company could do if they really wanted to take the leap.
I could also just have a narrow-sighted perspective on the situation, but that's largely where I fall currently. The focus on individual efforts vs societal (largely meaning the tools at my disposal beyond what I can provide myself) leaves much to be desired.