this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2024
113 points (91.2% liked)
Fediverse
17724 readers
2 users here now
A community dedicated to fediverse news and discussion.
Fediverse is a portmanteau of "federation" and "universe".
Getting started on Fediverse;
- What is the fediverse?
- Fediverse Platforms
- How to run your own community
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Daily reminder to defederate from and block
threads.net(and optionally all instances that do not do the same).Exactly. Proudly presented by https://fedipact.veganism.social/ and https://fedipact.online/why among others.
You can read the human rights abuses that meta is facilitating above.
So... Instances like lemmy.world, that this is posted to?
yes, I'm federated with them as well, but shit like this is why I dislike them being so big. In the end all the smaller instances can either have strong morals and integrity, or have access to the largest amount of content in the fediverse, but not both.
Ehh mastodon and lemmy don't see a ton of cross talk. Threads is mainly going to affect mastodon instances.
It's going to take some effort to have the necessary restrictions while also denying the "help" from major orgs in developing the software
Maybe we should do a reverse embrace-extend-extinguish where we open everything up until the point that they start introducing ads to enshittify the platform. Then after that great migration say goodbye to them
They can't place ads in your feeds.
Most platforms (especially reddit, instagram, twitter) moved ads from ad-dedicated spaces, to authentic-seeming posts, that are actually ads.
Sure, but that cannot happen here.
Sure they can. If you can't see them you might want to consider checking out Monkey Joe's optometry, they're pretty cheap and got good stock.
Why would I subscribe to a fake account pushing ads?
they technically could do this by representing ads with posts.
Why would you subscribe to those? Or are you claiming they would post ads as if they are from a user? In the latter case - the EU would shut them down before they even had time to deploy that.
yeah, I see them being posted into their DB (and therefore federated as) a post as if they are a user. they can earmark that post as an ad and properly present it as such in their own platform but anyone federated would see the post as-is.
they could either obfuscate how they mark it as an ad or just not provide that information at all to federating instances.
then I can totally see them claiming they don't control other instances and can't be responsible for whether or not the federated ads are presented as such.
As I have already posted elsewhere in this thread, if they post ads as a user they would get shut down by the EU immediately.
Any other suggestions?
ok but I'm not in the EU nor is my instance so that doesn't really apply to me.
Of course it does. The EU is such a big market that Meta cannot afford to do that.
companies are capable of operating under different rules in different jurisdictions, they do it all the time. just look at how they handle data in EU due to GDPR vs how they do it everywhere else. I don't see why this case would be much different.
Please think your argument through at a technical level. How would Meta be able to push posts-masking-as-users to only non-EU citizens?
The simple answer is that no, there's no way Meta can push ads into clients and/or servers that aren't under their control. They also don't need to - Threads is much bigger than the Mastodon-part of the fediverse.
It depends on how you read posts on Mastadon. I can see methods of developing ways that read Mastadon posts that can hide ads in it.
Please post one of those ways and I'll shoot it down.
That’s exactly the point. There are a lot of users on Threads who might be happy with the Fediverse. Threads will undoubtedly need a put in ads in their app/instance, their enshittification is inevitable. If it becomes easy for users to move over to more friendly Fediverse instances, that is a win.
My bad - I misread. Yeah that's a good point.
They can still train ML models (create profit) from the data they get from you without consent.
They can do that no matter if I federate with them or not.
And in one of those cases they are violating a very clear "this is not okay" signal, and in the other they are not.
They're already training on that data. No signals of relevance here.
They meant after Threads enshitifies itself and the users migrate to a proper Fedi platform then we block out Threads.
Defedding from threads always seems strange to me. Everyone says it's to protect your data from meta. But they can already get your data. Everything on the fediverse is public. They already have your data.
It’s not about the data, but the community. Just like how Google killed IRC, big techs are always trying to embrace, extend and extinguish the services.
@Dirk @MrScottyTay Also I think that one should ask the question, what Meta could do with the data and what it is doing with the data of their users. For their users they use the usage data to present them a feed that the users appreciate. Also they use it to place ads inside of their apps. Also they use the data to serve you ads outside of their system on ad networks that use data from Meta.
All of this is technically not possible for Fediverse users.
Defedding doesn't stop any of that though
Public is not the same as public domain.
I'm not a lawyer, but Federation would probably imply consent to sharing the data. Whereas defederation would strongly imply you're not okay with sharing the data with that entity.
You think they don't collect data illegally and anonymise it (but keep cohorts) for market research already? You sweet summer child
What I think or what they "may" do is irrelevant regarding public data. What matters is sending a clear signal what you are and are not okay with.
Whether you actively participate in helping them get your data or not might not effectively matter in them acquiring it, but it may heavily impact the fine they get for it afterwards. You might be okay with them getting your data for free, but I'm not, sweet summer child.
@Dirk @xelar thanks for your view, question: defederating with threads seems reasonable, but why would you defederate "second level" like this? I ask as the instance I'm in decided not to defederate with threads for now and I'm personally OK with that.
Ais defederated from Threads, but federates withB. AndBfederates with Threads. Now Meta can cash out on your data viaB.Everything we're posting is public, anyone can cash in on it regardless of who you defederate.
Everyone can break into my house regardless of having a key or not. I still don't have my key delivered to them.
Everyone can break into the park you visit and talk to people at
I don't think that's how it works and it would likely not be legal. By explicitly blocking Threads, you make a big statement about not wanting your instance's posts to show up there. Also from a technical standpoint, I don't think a "middle-man" instance will push posts from another instance to a third one. You'd have to explicitly scrape data that's not available via the API. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The fediverse is too new and niche to say that with certainty.
The legality is likely untested and certainly not enforced by pubspec yet.
I don't know enough to speak to the technicalities with certainty, but my surface level understanding is that that is exactly how it works, and it is one of the known flaws of the fediverse as it currently exists.
You might be making a statement, but server B is just a node and, frankly, doesn't care. If you federate with them, you federate with everyone they federate with as well.
It's uncomfortably like an STD in that regard.
@copygirl @Dirk yes, I also get the feeling this would not work in a compliant setup but it seems like a good idea to test this in e.g. a federation test suite.
Maybe @evanprodromou would know how this should work, or would know of someone who might be testing this kind of scenario.
@flancian @Dirk Threads has about 200 million monthly users, 33 million daily users. The fediverse has just under 1 million monthly users. Do you really think that 0.5% has any relevance to Meta?
Also: What data do you think Meta will be able to use - and for what? They can't use this data to serve you ads, simply because they don't know you. They can't track you around the web because you don't have a Meta account.
Do you really think they would care about those users when they extend and extinguish the Fediverse?
@Dirk How should they achieve it? The Fediverse contains of a lot of different systems that offer so much more than Threads could ever do.
Nobody can ever explain how EEE could work in this scenario. They just parrot it and stop thinking.
The 0.5% on fedi are more likely to be the technical users that actually produce usable content.
How many thread users are bots or passive consumers? They may be good for serving ads to, but they're not so food at retaining and attracting users
It's a way to force your morals on the others.